Recently I saw a television show that dealt with the issue of homosexuality and whether a gay person can go straight or not. It attacked the idea that the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin, and that it is possible to change. Naturally the show, as do all secular shows, presented the conclusion that being gay is natural and perfectly normal for some people and that to not accept that is the sin, not homosexuality. Further, it promoted the idea that homosexuality is an inborn trait which nobody can change, and that God is okay with homosexuality, as it is all about "love". So what does God and His Word have to say on the issue?
There are two parts to this question, so first the issue of, "is being gay acceptable to God", will be addressed. In the television show that I watched, the passage in Leviticus was quoted. Leviticus 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." The response to the person who quoted the passage was to point out that God also demanded death for not keeping the Sabbath, and had laws for slavery, and did the person expect those laws to still be kept? The writers of the dialogue were trying to say that the Old Testament Laws were no longer valid, therefore the whole idea of homosexuality being a sin was also no longer valid, as these laws had only applied to ancient Israel. It is true that we no longer keep the laws of the Torah, but does that mean that nothing applies? What is not understood is that the Torah is God's governmental laws for a nation, just as we have governmental laws to order our nation. They are no longer used, as the Lord is not the governmental leader (theocracy) of any nation. People have rejected God in favor of men as leaders and man's laws as our laws. While the penalties of the actions are no longer used in any nation (you may find a couple used in Muslim countries) the sins themselves are still considered sins by God. That part has not changed. If a particular action is mentioned again in the New Testament as being a sin, that only reinforces the validity of saying that action is considered a sin by God and that the Old Testament verses about that sin still are in effect.
What I am about to say is going to make some people mad. If you are offended, you will have to take it up with God, not me, because I am not the author of the Bible. I am just relating what it says. Before continuing further, I will say that I have (either presently or in the past) had homosexual or lesbian friends or family. I love them dearly and we have had good relationships. I am not their judge, God is, so I do not judge them, but try to show them Yeshua through my love and life. While I love them, I do not condone the sin, nor do I pretend to any more than I approve of co-habitation without marriage. Sadly if they continue in their sin unrepentant until they die, just as if perpetrators of the other sins listed in the following verses continue unrepentant, their sin will send them to hell and eventually the lake of fire. It won't be the sin itself that sends them there, but the lack of repentance. Repented sin is forgiven. "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Galatians 6:7.
In particular when discussing this issue, there is a question of the word "effeminate" and the phrase "abusers of themselves with mankind." 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 "Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. " This passage clearly states that people who unrepentantly practice these sins will not enter the kingdom of God. I have visited sites where homosexual pastors or Christians try to explain this word and phrase away to allow them to continue to practice their sexual preference guilt free. I notice they stay far away from other verses of the Bible, which I will give in a moment which are far more accusing. The word effeminate essentially means the person who takes the female role in a homosexual relationship and presents themselves in such a manner. I am sure most people know what I mean by that. These are the men who take on female mannerisms in their deportment. Abusers of themselves are people who misuse their bodies in some way which is not natural to mankind. This refers to not only homosexuality, but bestiality, necrophilia, etc. God could not be more clear as to the consequences of practicing this sin without acknowledging it is a sin and repenting.
Whether or not people want to accept it, the Scriptures are clear about this sexual act. Lev.18:22 "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination." Lev. 20:13 "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." First, this is not making any distinction between lust and love (which seems to be the crux of the homosexual defense). No mention of feelings is involved at all. It is the physical act that is being addressed. It is the physical act which is the abomination. The penalty for committing this abomination was death. Next, clearly this is not talking about temple prostitution (which is another explanation I have heard). It had nothing to do with pagan temple worship. It is a law for God's people's behavior, not a commentary on surrounding nations. Nor is this a non-applicable law because it is in the Old Testament. As mentioned above, while the punishments of the Torah laws are no longer used, as God is not the accepted Leader of any nation (even Israel), the sins are still considered sins by God. This is an abomination to God yesterday, today, and forever, and it is addressed as such again in the New Testament. (comments in parentheses are mine) "Wherefore God also gave them up (let them do what they wanted) to uncleanness (something that is an abomination to God) through the lusts (sinfulness) of their own hearts, to dishonour (revile and debase) their own bodies between themselves: who changed the truth of God into a lie, (denying what the Scriptures clearly say about this and saying God approves) and worshipped and served (idolize and devote oneself to) the creature (each other) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause (because of their unwillingness to acknowledge the truth and their deliberate disobedience) God gave them up unto (deliberately turned them over to) vile affections (abominable lusts) : for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature (lesbianism): and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men (homosexuality) working that which is unseemly, (unnatural, not in accord with acceptable standards, grossly improper) and receiving in themselves that recompence (all the consequences that have ensued such as disease, death, heartache, broken families) of their error (the sin) which was meet (fitting and just). And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, (totally and deliberately reject God and what the Bible clearly says) God gave them over to a reprobate mind, (releases them to wallow in all the evil they desire) to do those things which are not convenient; (not naturally built to do - other methods had to be invented for sex) being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful (once turned over to a reprobate mind, sin reigns in many more forms in their lives): who knowing the judgment of God,(they are well aware what the Bible says on this issue) that they which commit such things are worthy of death (O.T. law still in effect), not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them (not only delight in doing these sins, but delight in leading and corrupting others to do it with them)." Romans 1: 24-32.
Clearly the description of men leaving the natural use of women and burning with lust for other men describes homosexuality. It is not a matter of distinction between lust and love, it is a matter of distinction between wanting to have sex with the opposite gender versus wanting to have sex with the same gender. The same holds true for the women. Again, it is not a case of "lust" versus "love", with love making it all right. It is a matter of the same gender having sex with the same gender. All Scriptures must be taken together on this issue. They are leaving the natural use of women (or men). It is the physical act, not just the emotions involved. It is also not a case of temple prostitution. The temple is not referred to at all. It is simply the unnatural use of sex between members of the same gender that God considers dishonoring the body. This could not be more clear in these verses and trying to ignore it or twist it to mean something else is just going to land people in the lake of fire. Understand I am not without sins myself, and this is (while not trying to treat it lightly) just one more sin, however God hates it greatly, as it is a sin against what has been created in the image of God, and what is the temple that the Holy Spirit inhabits when one accepts the Lord. The problem is that the gay community and its supporters are denying that it is a sin, and not only are unrepentant, but try to justify it, force others to accept it, and try to lead young people into it. ("have pleasure in them that do them") Repentant homosexuals who do not continue in the practice of this sin can get into heaven, just as any other sinner who repents and turns from their sin will get in (provided they endure to the end). Thieves know stealing is wrong. People know lying is wrong. These sins are acknowledged to be sins, however that is not the case with homosexuality. Gay people defend it as not being a sin. Understand it is not my call. It does not matter what I think. It does not matter what you think. It does not matter what anyone thinks. It only matters what God thinks, because He is the One calling the shots and the One who will judge us all. God does not care how I or anybody else feels about the issue. It only matters how He feels and He has made it abundantly clear. Denying it is a sin will not work with God, no matter how much a person wants it to be so. That is not my opinion, that is what God says. He says it is an abomination, which makes the person who practices it abominable to God, plain and simple. The truth is the truth, like it or not. Denying the truth is not going to change what God says. We all like to justify our sins, but it is to our own eternal peril that we do. I do not want to see the gay people I know and love go to hell any more than I want to see the fornicators (many of my friends and family have practiced sex outside of marriage), or liars (Who has not told a little white lie? I know I have to protect someone's feelings - e.g. Does this make me look fat?), or thieves (Stealing is taking a pen from work, not just robbing a bank), or murderers (Do you intensely dislike anyone? God said that we are guilty if it is even in our heart), or drunkards (Did you have one too many at that last party?), or those who covet (Who hasn't experienced that one at one time or another? I know I have. I have to confess it and repent it.). I know sinning jeopardizes my salvation and I have to continually acknowledge it and repent. But I admit it is a sin and that I am sinning. Homosexuality is a sin that is not acknowledged by homosexuals and unfortunately it is a sin that the Christian church has either accepted as being permissible by God, or focused on as being a sin to the exclusion of every other sin. Neither is the correct response. It is clearly a sin and should not be condoned, however it is hypocritical on the part of many Christians to be so hyper condemning and treat homosexuals as untouchables, who do not even merit common courtesy, when they have a serious problem themselves. One sin in the church that really rankles me is gossip, and some of the most pious people are the guiltiest of practicing it. It is usually epidemic in most churches and is a sin that is not only unacknowledged, but will jeopardize a lot of people who practice it unrepentantly. Most homosexuals do not pretend to be Christians, therefore Christians should not be worried about their homosexuality. It is the sin of not accepting Christ that will ultimately send them to hell. The other sins are only going to determine their level of punishment in hell. It must also be remembered that unbelievers do not have to clean up their lives before coming to the Lord, that is not how it works. We need not make them give up homosexuality before coming to the Lord. However the sins must be repented and purged from our lives after accepting the Lord, if one is to make it into heaven. Our job is not to tell homosexuals that they should stop their sin; our job is to bring people to the Lord and let the Lord clean up their sins. Granted they must be shown that they have to acknowledge they are sinners, but that does not mean having to harp on their sexual orientation. There are plenty of ways of sinning that they may be perfectly willing to acknowledge and confess that they are sinners in need of forgiveness. We are to be wise in our witnessing and should approach things in a way that will win them, not drive them away. Too, Christians should be looking at the beam in their own eye, as they are responsible for keeping their lives as free from sin as possible, so as not to look like a hypocrite.
The second part of the question was, can a gay person become straight? Above it was seen that when a person decides to pursue homosexuality, God turns them over to a reprobate mind and their lusts. That means that God has removed His protective hand and allows not only the sinful nature of man to come to the full, but it also means that He allows demonic influences to have unrestrained access. While many people do not want to acknowledge it, a great many of homosexuals have been the victims of sexual abuse in their childhood or adolescence, or at least the victims of domineering people who have caused emotional damage in them. Sexual abuse is an occult form of introducing human control over another individual (generally initiated in childhood), as well as demonic control in an individual. When a child is sexually abused, demonic influences enter their lives, and since it came in the form of sexual abuse, more often than not homosexual abuse, this demonic influence remains in their lives until removed by Yeshua (the Lord Jesus Christ). Emotional abuse of a domineering individual can create a negative response toward the gender of that individual, so a woman who has domineered a young boy in an excessive manner might make him turn to male comfort and companionship, especially if he has not had a male role model in his life. Once a sexual encounter occurs, demonic influence can take over. The same holds true for females with abusive male figures. They may turn to lesbianism. I believe many women turn to lesbianism these days, merely because society has made them unacceptable as potential mates in that they do not fit the Hollywood stereotype of thin, beautiful, blonde (and dumb) women who flaunt their sexuality. Men are being told that they should only want the Hollywood model, that this is what they deserve (no matter what they may be like), and therefore any woman who is not pretty enough, thin enough, or young enough (not to mention if she is too smart) finds herself with no life companionship with the opposite sex. With more and more men becoming gay, and women finding themselves rejected by the seemingly fewer and fewer straight men that are left, many are turning to each other for companionship and comfort. Once they step over that line and have sexual encounters, they too open themselves to demonic influence in this area. And for the record, every sin we commit opens us to demonic influence, not just sexual sins. Sin separates us from God and leaves us openly unprotected in Satan's realm, even when we are Christians.
As it appears that homosexuality is, after a person's initial introduction or choice, partially a result of God turning a person over to it and partially a result of demonic influence, but not, according to Scriptures the result of being born that way, it would seem that just as any sin can be forgiven and overcome, so can this one. 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." To be cleansed from a sin means that it is forgiven and expunged from our record. Does that mean we will never be tempted to that sin again. No. Some sins follow us for life and tempt us. The alcoholic does not stop being an alcoholic simply because he has not taken a drink in a long time. A drug addict needs to forever forsake his drug addiction, a pornography addict his pornography, but that does not mean the desire will not pop up every once in a while. God may cleanse the homosexual of all desire immediately, or He may leave it there as a cross to bear for quite some time to help the person grow spiritually. There is one action that must be taken though, if a person is to be relieved of the inclination. He must remove the demonic influence. If a person does not take action to remove the demonic influence, which does require more than repenting his sin to God, the temptation will not go away. One must rebuke the demon, command it to leave in the name of Yeshua (Jesus) and remove anything to which the demon can attach himself to be able to stay around. All influence of that sin must be removed from the person's life, as just one object or action may open up the demonic influence again. One thing is certain, the sin should never be physically engaged in again, no matter what the temptation. What if it does? Does that mean the person should give up, leave God, and go back to his or her previous lifestyle? No. Go back and read 1 John 1:9 above, confess, repent, and remember that committing the sin opens one up to demonic influence again, so that demonic influence must be removed again. When we fall into sin, we need to repent and get back on track again. How long will the struggle continue? Maybe a lifetime. Some of us will struggle with other sins that long, so there is no guarantee a homosexual won't struggle with his sin that long. The important thing is to repent and try your best to not fall again. Can a homosexual truly become a heterosexual? By the grace of God, yes, but probably not overnight. The closer the person comes to God, the more they will find themselves conforming to what God wants, and He created mankind to be heterosexual.
Addendum: I have just learned about the Queen James Bible. I guess I am probably behind the times, as I do not ascribe to modern day versions, so don't pay a whole lot of attention to all the new versions coming out, as they are all bad. See my article on the King James Bible in the archives to understand why I say that. Anyhow, back to the subject. The Queen James Bible is, from what I understand, the King James Bible with eight verses removed. The eight verses removed are ones that are offensive to homosexuals (see my article above to see the verses), as they clearly teach that homosexuality is an abomination to God. Now, I must ask a question to homosexuals who argue that God is not against homosexuality. If you truly believe that this is acceptable to God, then why did you have to create a new Bible that cuts out the offending verses? Clearly you are patently aware that God is against it, for you had to remove the offending verses, so that they would not convict you. So now you are guilty of another sin as well.
Deuteronomy 4:2 "Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye
diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD
your God which I command you."
Deuteronomy 12:32 "What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it."
Revelation 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the
prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall
add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this
prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out
of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."
As another addendum, same sex marriage is now acceptable in a number of states. Is this a problem? Obviously if homosexuality is a sin, so is homosexual marriage. God created marriage as a covenant between a man and a woman. Period. Matthew 19:4-5 " And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?" Mark 10: But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."
While the state may have the right to allow two people of the same sex to enter into a legal contract, which protects the rights of the individuals in that contract, that does not give the church the right to put their stamp of approval on these unions saying that God will approve and bless them. He will not. And the minsters and churches who join in approving and performing this blasphemous act are asking God to pronounce judgment upon them, for as God has told us, as we get close to the return of Christ, 1 Peter 4:12-19 " Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that,
when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding
joy. If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy
are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their
part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters. Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and
if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the
gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the
keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator." We will be reproached and persecuted and suffer for standing for the Word of God. It eventually will literally become a fiery trial (and it already has for many Christians in other countries). For those who compromise and do not stand for God's Word, be aware that before judgment falls upon the world, it will fall upon the church, for judgment begins with the House of God. Those who walk with the world instead of God, will suffer as the world will, to cleanse them of their unrighteousness.
Thursday, August 25, 2011
Sunday, July 31, 2011
Why Did God Allow a Human Sacrifice?
In perusing questions that atheists pose to Christians to supposedly trip them up and prove that "if" there is a God, He is a horrible one, they say that He demands human sacrifice. This is blatantly untrue. The case they are speaking about is the story of Jephthah. The story can be found in Judges 11.
"Now Jephthah the Gileadite was a mighty man of valour, and he was the son of an harlot: and Gilead begat Jephthah. And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman. Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him. And it came to pass in process of time, that the children of Ammon made war against Israel. And it was so, that when the children of Ammon made war against Israel, the elders of Gilead went to fetch Jephthah out of the land of Tob: And they said unto Jephthah, Come, and be our captain, that we may fight with the children of Ammon. And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, Did not ye hate me, and expel me out of my father's house? and why are ye come unto me now when ye are in distress? And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, Therefore we turn again to thee now, that thou mayest go with us, and fight against the children of Ammon, and be our head over all the inhabitants of Gilead. And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, If ye bring me home again to fight against the children of Ammon, and the LORD deliver them before me, shall I be your head? And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, The LORD be witness between us, if we do not so according to thy words. Then Jephthah went with the elders of Gilead, and the people made him head and captain over them: and Jephthah uttered all his words before the LORD in Mizpeh. And Jephthah sent messengers unto the king of the children of Ammon, saying, What hast thou to do with me, that thou art come against me to fight in my land? And the king of the children of Ammon answered unto the messengers of Jephthah, Because Israel took away my land, when they came up out of Egypt, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and unto Jordan: now therefore restore those lands again peaceably. And Jephthah sent messengers again unto the king of the children of Ammon: And said unto him, Thus saith Jephthah, Israel took not away the land of Moab, nor the land of the children of Ammon: But when Israel came up from Egypt, and walked through the wilderness unto the Red sea, and came to Kadesh; Then Israel sent messengers unto the king of Edom, saying, Let me, I pray thee, pass through thy land: but the king of Edom would not hearken thereto. And in like manner they sent unto the king of Moab: but he would not consent: and Israel abode in Kadesh. Then they went along through the wilderness, and compassed the land of Edom, and the land of Moab, and came by the east side of the land of Moab, and pitched on the other side of Arnon, but came not within the border of Moab: for Arnon was the border of Moab. And Israel sent messengers unto Sihon king of the Amorites, the king of Heshbon; and Israel said unto him, Let us pass, we pray thee, through thy land into my place. But Sihon trusted not Israel to pass through his coast: but Sihon gathered all his people together, and pitched in Jahaz, and fought against Israel. And the LORD God of Israel delivered Sihon and all his people into the hand of Israel, and they smote them: so Israel possessed all the land of the Amorites, the inhabitants of that country. And they possessed all the coasts of the Amorites, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and from the wilderness even unto Jordan. So now the LORD God of Israel hath dispossessed the Amorites from before his people Israel, and shouldest thou possess it? Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD our God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess. And now art thou any thing better than Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab? did he ever strive against Israel, or did he ever fight against them, While Israel dwelt in Heshbon and her towns, and in Aroer and her towns, and in all the cities that be along by the coasts of Arnon, three hundred years? why therefore did ye not recover them within that time? Wherefore I have not sinned against thee, but thou doest me wrong to war against me: the LORD the Judge be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon. Howbeit the king of the children of Ammon hearkened not unto the words of Jephthah which he sent him. Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon. And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands. And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel. And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back. And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon. And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows. And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains. And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel, that the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year."
From this story we see that Jephthah had made a vow to God that if He delivered the Ammonites into Jephthah's hand, he would offer, as a burnt offering to the Lord, the first thing that ran out to meet him upon his return. Unfortunately for Jephthah, and even more for his daughter, it was his daughter who ran out to meet him. It is apparent that Jephthah expected a pet or one of the farm animals to run out, as this is probably what usually happened when he came home from somewhere. This time though, he was returning from war and his daughter was probably very worried about him and watching for his return to know that he was safe. When Jephthah saw that it was his daughter, he was beside himself with grief. Not only was she a beloved daughter, but she was his only child and an unmarried virgin. As such, with her death there would be no continuation of his line, which was extremely important to people back then. So why would God allow such a terrible thing as a human sacrifice? The reason the story is included in Scripture is to teach us the seriousness of making a vow to God.
Numbers 30:1-2 "And Moses spake unto the heads of the tribes concerning the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded. If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth."
Leviticus 27: 28-29 "Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD. None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death."
When someone makes a vow, and in this case it was a vow to devote something to the Lord which doubles the necessity of fulfilling the vow, one has to keep it. Jephthah spoke rashly without considering the consequences, which we all do at some time or another. He did not stop to consider what the consequences of his vow could possibly be, as he was focused on getting what he wanted at the time, winning the war. His rash act cost him the life of his daughter and the hope of posterity.
Did God require a human sacrifice? God has never asked for a human sacrifice except of Abraham when he asked him to offer Isaac. But we know that God never intended to allow Abraham to actually slay Isaac. It was merely a test of faithfulness. God will often test us to see how far we are willing to follow Him, but when He sees our commitment He does not require the carrying out of what He has asked. The intent of our hearts is enough to please Him. Had Jephthah thought of the rashness of his vow before returning home, and realizing the possibility of something terrible coming from his rashness, he could have repented and asked God to make sure that whatever ran out to meet him was not a person, but an animal that would serve well as a sacrifice. He could not renege on his vow, as God had commanded that any vow be carried out. To allow him to not carry it out would make God a liar, which He cannot be, so the vow had to be fulfilled. But had he repented, I am sure that God would have answered his prayer and provided an animal, as God does not want or approve of human sacrifice. It is an abomination to him.
Deuteronomy 18:10 "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch."
2 Kings 17:17 "And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."
2 Kings 21:6 "And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."
2 Kings 23:10 "And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."
2 Chronicles 33:6 "And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observe3d times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."
In each of these verses we see that God considers people offering up their children as a burnt human sacrifice (which is what"passing through the fire" means) as wickedness that provokes His anger. He would never condone it, but in this case He had to stand back and allow it, as He could not break His own Word. It must have been as painful for the Lord, as it was for Jephthah and his daughter. The lesson to us is to not make rash vows and to carefully consider what we say and do. That is why God allowed this story to be told, in spite of the fact that it was an act that He would never find acceptable. God is bound by His own words, which is why we can believe and count on Him to be faithful and true. It is this very quality which allows us to be able to trust in Him.
So we see that this was not a matter of God being a God who demands or even condones human sacrifice, but One who is faithful to keep His word no matter what the cost.
"Now Jephthah the Gileadite was a mighty man of valour, and he was the son of an harlot: and Gilead begat Jephthah. And Gilead's wife bare him sons; and his wife's sons grew up, and they thrust out Jephthah, and said unto him, Thou shalt not inherit in our father's house; for thou art the son of a strange woman. Then Jephthah fled from his brethren, and dwelt in the land of Tob: and there were gathered vain men to Jephthah, and went out with him. And it came to pass in process of time, that the children of Ammon made war against Israel. And it was so, that when the children of Ammon made war against Israel, the elders of Gilead went to fetch Jephthah out of the land of Tob: And they said unto Jephthah, Come, and be our captain, that we may fight with the children of Ammon. And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, Did not ye hate me, and expel me out of my father's house? and why are ye come unto me now when ye are in distress? And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, Therefore we turn again to thee now, that thou mayest go with us, and fight against the children of Ammon, and be our head over all the inhabitants of Gilead. And Jephthah said unto the elders of Gilead, If ye bring me home again to fight against the children of Ammon, and the LORD deliver them before me, shall I be your head? And the elders of Gilead said unto Jephthah, The LORD be witness between us, if we do not so according to thy words. Then Jephthah went with the elders of Gilead, and the people made him head and captain over them: and Jephthah uttered all his words before the LORD in Mizpeh. And Jephthah sent messengers unto the king of the children of Ammon, saying, What hast thou to do with me, that thou art come against me to fight in my land? And the king of the children of Ammon answered unto the messengers of Jephthah, Because Israel took away my land, when they came up out of Egypt, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and unto Jordan: now therefore restore those lands again peaceably. And Jephthah sent messengers again unto the king of the children of Ammon: And said unto him, Thus saith Jephthah, Israel took not away the land of Moab, nor the land of the children of Ammon: But when Israel came up from Egypt, and walked through the wilderness unto the Red sea, and came to Kadesh; Then Israel sent messengers unto the king of Edom, saying, Let me, I pray thee, pass through thy land: but the king of Edom would not hearken thereto. And in like manner they sent unto the king of Moab: but he would not consent: and Israel abode in Kadesh. Then they went along through the wilderness, and compassed the land of Edom, and the land of Moab, and came by the east side of the land of Moab, and pitched on the other side of Arnon, but came not within the border of Moab: for Arnon was the border of Moab. And Israel sent messengers unto Sihon king of the Amorites, the king of Heshbon; and Israel said unto him, Let us pass, we pray thee, through thy land into my place. But Sihon trusted not Israel to pass through his coast: but Sihon gathered all his people together, and pitched in Jahaz, and fought against Israel. And the LORD God of Israel delivered Sihon and all his people into the hand of Israel, and they smote them: so Israel possessed all the land of the Amorites, the inhabitants of that country. And they possessed all the coasts of the Amorites, from Arnon even unto Jabbok, and from the wilderness even unto Jordan. So now the LORD God of Israel hath dispossessed the Amorites from before his people Israel, and shouldest thou possess it? Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess? So whomsoever the LORD our God shall drive out from before us, them will we possess. And now art thou any thing better than Balak the son of Zippor, king of Moab? did he ever strive against Israel, or did he ever fight against them, While Israel dwelt in Heshbon and her towns, and in Aroer and her towns, and in all the cities that be along by the coasts of Arnon, three hundred years? why therefore did ye not recover them within that time? Wherefore I have not sinned against thee, but thou doest me wrong to war against me: the LORD the Judge be judge this day between the children of Israel and the children of Ammon. Howbeit the king of the children of Ammon hearkened not unto the words of Jephthah which he sent him. Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah, and he passed over Gilead, and Manasseh, and passed over Mizpeh of Gilead, and from Mizpeh of Gilead he passed over unto the children of Ammon. And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands, Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering. So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands. And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel. And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter. And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back. And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon. And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows. And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains. And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel, that the daughters of Israel went yearly to lament the daughter of Jephthah the Gileadite four days in a year."
From this story we see that Jephthah had made a vow to God that if He delivered the Ammonites into Jephthah's hand, he would offer, as a burnt offering to the Lord, the first thing that ran out to meet him upon his return. Unfortunately for Jephthah, and even more for his daughter, it was his daughter who ran out to meet him. It is apparent that Jephthah expected a pet or one of the farm animals to run out, as this is probably what usually happened when he came home from somewhere. This time though, he was returning from war and his daughter was probably very worried about him and watching for his return to know that he was safe. When Jephthah saw that it was his daughter, he was beside himself with grief. Not only was she a beloved daughter, but she was his only child and an unmarried virgin. As such, with her death there would be no continuation of his line, which was extremely important to people back then. So why would God allow such a terrible thing as a human sacrifice? The reason the story is included in Scripture is to teach us the seriousness of making a vow to God.
Numbers 30:1-2 "And Moses spake unto the heads of the tribes concerning the children of Israel, saying, This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded. If a man vow a vow unto the LORD, or swear an oath to bind his soul with a bond; he shall not break his word, he shall do according to all that proceedeth out of his mouth."
Leviticus 27: 28-29 "Notwithstanding no devoted thing, that a man shall devote unto the LORD of all that he hath, both of man and beast, and of the field of his possession, shall be sold or redeemed: every devoted thing is most holy unto the LORD. None devoted, which shall be devoted of men, shall be redeemed; but shall surely be put to death."
When someone makes a vow, and in this case it was a vow to devote something to the Lord which doubles the necessity of fulfilling the vow, one has to keep it. Jephthah spoke rashly without considering the consequences, which we all do at some time or another. He did not stop to consider what the consequences of his vow could possibly be, as he was focused on getting what he wanted at the time, winning the war. His rash act cost him the life of his daughter and the hope of posterity.
Did God require a human sacrifice? God has never asked for a human sacrifice except of Abraham when he asked him to offer Isaac. But we know that God never intended to allow Abraham to actually slay Isaac. It was merely a test of faithfulness. God will often test us to see how far we are willing to follow Him, but when He sees our commitment He does not require the carrying out of what He has asked. The intent of our hearts is enough to please Him. Had Jephthah thought of the rashness of his vow before returning home, and realizing the possibility of something terrible coming from his rashness, he could have repented and asked God to make sure that whatever ran out to meet him was not a person, but an animal that would serve well as a sacrifice. He could not renege on his vow, as God had commanded that any vow be carried out. To allow him to not carry it out would make God a liar, which He cannot be, so the vow had to be fulfilled. But had he repented, I am sure that God would have answered his prayer and provided an animal, as God does not want or approve of human sacrifice. It is an abomination to him.
Deuteronomy 18:10 "There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch."
2 Kings 17:17 "And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."
2 Kings 21:6 "And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."
2 Kings 23:10 "And he defiled Topheth, which is in the valley of the children of Hinnom, that no man might make his son or his daughter to pass through the fire to Molech."
2 Chronicles 33:6 "And he caused his children to pass through the fire in the valley of the son of Hinnom: also he observe3d times, and used enchantments, and used witchcraft, and dealt with a familiar spirit, and with wizards: he wrought much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger."
In each of these verses we see that God considers people offering up their children as a burnt human sacrifice (which is what"passing through the fire" means) as wickedness that provokes His anger. He would never condone it, but in this case He had to stand back and allow it, as He could not break His own Word. It must have been as painful for the Lord, as it was for Jephthah and his daughter. The lesson to us is to not make rash vows and to carefully consider what we say and do. That is why God allowed this story to be told, in spite of the fact that it was an act that He would never find acceptable. God is bound by His own words, which is why we can believe and count on Him to be faithful and true. It is this very quality which allows us to be able to trust in Him.
So we see that this was not a matter of God being a God who demands or even condones human sacrifice, but One who is faithful to keep His word no matter what the cost.
Friday, May 27, 2011
Harold Camping Failed and Tries Again With October 21, 2011
I thought when May 21, 2011 passed that we would be done discussing Harold Camping, but it seems we are beginning all over again. If you have not read my first article on Camping explaining why his predictions cannot possibly come true, and a rather "out there" explanation as to what really could have happened should it seemed to have come true, you can read it here. BibleConundrumsandControversyHaroldCamping
Now again, for the twelfth time Camping is predicting the end of the world. Yes, that is correct, this is not his second or even third try, it is his twelfth. People are simply not aware of the other ten (or more correctly nine as many people are aware of the 1994 debacle) tries as they did not receive the publicity and media attention this last one did. The following is a list of predictions that Camping has made over the years.
Prediction #1 - 1978 – Camping tells his Alameda Church that the rapture would occur that year.
Prediction #2 - Sept. 6, 1994 – Camping predicts end of world (Rosh haShanah) – Writes book 1994?.
Prediction #3 - Sept. 15, 1994 – When Sept. 6 fails, changes to the 15th (Yom Kippur).
Prediction #4 - Sept. 29, 1994 - When Sept. 15 fails, changes to the 29th (Feast of Tabernacles).
Prediction #5 - Oct. 2, 1994 - Claims Christ was born on Oct. 2, 7 BC and would return exactly 2000 years later.
Prediction #6 - Dec. 25, 1994 - Claims Christ will return on Christmas and Bible supports it.
Prediction #7 – March 16, 1995 – Claims Christ will return on Purim. Says it is “Watch #1 of a new wave of dates (rapture/wrath, etc.)
Prediction #8 – Sept. 24, 1995 – Watch #2 – Claims there is Biblical evidence of Christ returning 383 days after Sept. 6, 1994. Also claims Sept. 24 is 721 + 91 Ceros. (A ceros is a little over 18 years – 223 lunar cycles or revolutions. A ceros is the complete revolution of the sun, moon, stars, and planets). Camping claims these revolutions predict the end. Also states that if you divide the 2300 days of Daniel 8 by the number “6” you get 383. Thus you add 383 to Sept. 6 and come to Sept. 24 which ends the 383 days period. This is the day before Rosh haShanah.
Prediction #9 – April 3, 1996 – Watch #3 – Claims there is Biblical evidence of Christ returning 191 days after Sept. 25, 1995 (Rosh haShanah) on Passover 1996. (Passover was actually April 4.)
Prediction #10 – May 3, 1996 – Camping claims a 30 day grace period based on Mark 13:35 (which makes no sense as it says “ Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cock crowing, or in the morning.” This says you won't know the day. He must not have read it carefully.)
Prediction #11 – May 21, 2011 – Camping says rapture/resurrection and judgment will occur exactly 7000 years to the day after Noah's Flood and end of world will come on Oct. 21. (He must not realize Noah did not use the calendar God gave Moses. Noah's Flood started in the second month of the civil calendar, which is what Noah used. Plus the Flood was not 7000 years ago.)
Prediction #12 – Oct. 21, 2011 – Camping says rapture/resurrection and end of world will come. May 21 was an invisible rapture and the end will still come on Oct. 21.
Getting back to his latest failure, I did not hear his post-failure speech live, but between youtube clips and reading articles online, I now know what he said. I have included some transcripts of the interviews, as youtube links may be removed at some point, so putting one in may not work in the future. You can decide for yourself what kind of person he is. While you have the right to disagree with my comments, I have included my thoughts in italics after his answers.
Question: What advice do you give to those who took you literally and gave away all their money or donated to Family Radio and now may not have the funds to survive now until October 21?
Camping: Please understand. We don't advise anybody what to do. We are not in the business of financial advise. We just had a great recession. A great recession. There are lots of people that lost their jobs. There are lots of people that lost their houses. Lots of people Not just a few, but lots of people. And somehow they all survived. They all had maybe a cousin helped them, or a sister, or the city helped them, or maybe they lowered their expense way, way down. Sometimes it was very severe. I will tell you what has happened to the average person that has been faithfully listening to the Family Radio. It is not nearly as grievous as the recent recession where people lost their homes. People cope. And we are not in a business of giving any financial advice. We are in the business of telling people “Look, there is someone you can talk to, that can maybe guide you, maybe help you. And that's God. Come boldly to the throne of grace. Pray without ceasing. I will tell you, it is wonderful. It is wonderful when we get to a point in our life where a lot of times, the best time is when our back is against the world and we don't know where to go, and finally you are pleading with God. “Oh, God, please have mercy, I don't know what to do.” And that could be just the time that when you are really drawn to God like you have never had. Believe me, God is very real.
So Camping is denying ANY responsibility in leaving these people destitute? Homeless, penniless, jobless? Wow. And he is comparing taking their money under false pretenses, as a charlatan con artist as people who are suffering from the economic recession? I don't think there is any comparison. He has deliberately fleeced people of their money telling them they would “save the world.” Now he expects everyone else, their families, their friends, the government to help these people out? Family radio does millions of dollars in business. Maybe they could help them out since they are in part responsible for people being in this state. I say “in part” because these people are equally to blame for listening to him instead of studying their Bible and seeing his errors. I guess he is like any charlatan and figures if people are stupid and gullible enough to believe them, that they deserve what they get. He certainly is copping to that attitude. He doesn't think it is grievous? He isn't the one destitute. He's rolling in dough. He suggests that there is someone who “maybe?” can help them. Yes, God is the ONLY one who can help them at this point. But it doesn't take coming to the throne of God boldly. It takes coming to the throne of God humbly, confessing and repenting of their sin of believing a false prophet and humbly asking God to forgive them and help them out of this dilemma. Just pleading mercy and telling Him you don't know what to do is not going to cut it. He requires confession and repentance for the sin before He'll help out. I love the way Camping feels that it is wonderful that he has helped people get closer to God by taking everything from them.
Questions: I agree with you, so I think that what they have to do, you are saying, is pray because of self-reliance and not rely on someone else's information, because it is maybe incorrect? Just to go within and trust themselves, perhaps? Is that the advice, maybe?
Camping: No, that is the point of prayer. You don't rely on your own understanding. That's the point of prayer. You are relying on God to help you. Now look. I am praying to God. I don't have a job. So I am lying on bed, “Lord have mercy, I need a job. I need a job. Lord have mercy. I need a job. I have a family to support.” But boy, this bed is comfortable, I don't want to get out of this bed. That is pure hypocrisy. We don't go to the Lord like that.
Camping is missing the point of the question, deliberately missing it. The interviewer is saying that people should trust themselves and check up on others and what they are telling them instead of believing everything someone tells them. Especially someone with a really bad track record. Camping is saying that people should not rely on their own gut reaction to someone like him. Of course not. He doesn't want anyone questioning what he says. That could be seen on his Forum talk shows. Any time that someone tried to chastise him or correct him or disagree with him, he would have them cut off so they couldn't talk anymore. He actually told one caller who challenged him that he was challenging God. Camping has a God complex. He thinks he is God, which is why he thinks he knows the date the Christ told us only the Father would know. He changes the topic from relying on someone else's information to relying on someone to support you. He has a habit of changing the subject when it is one he does not want to address.
Questions: Is it safe to say that mainstream population that heard about May 21 didn't believe it? It didn't happen, and now you are saying is, see this is ridiculous, and at best, misguided prediction or some kind of scam. Does it worry that you have hurt the credibility of religion?
Camping: Excuse me, just like what I have said before. Most pastors would never admit they make a mistake, because they are trying to preserve their own credibility in the eyes of those who are listening, or maybe they insist they are maintaining the credibility of the Bible, but the fact is they are not. And all I can do is to go to the Bible, and very humbly say, “Look, I have done some more studying, or somebody has sent me an idea about this phrase, and I checked it out, and I find that I have to make a change.” That does not hurt the credibility of the Bible at all. We are not perfect and God has to keep opening our eyes. God says again and again, He resists the proud and shows mercy to the humble. Verse after verse in the Bible, God resists those who come in their pride. And there is nothing in the world......There is one thing that should be seen in everyone who claims to be the child of God is humility. Whatever I know or whatever I am doing, I have to pray to God altogether. I pray again and again. The verse Philippians 2 where it says work out your own salvation, that is salvation that God has provided, you work it out, and it says, “though it is God who causes you to will and do of His good pleasure.” So even if we do something well done, I can't take any credit at all. Lord, I thank you that you have guided me this way. I am nothing. I will tell you, I can recommend this to anybody. It's a wonderful way to live, when we walk humbly before God. So you are never trying to show how smart you are or how wise you are. I have given all the credit to God and that's where it should go.
Notice when Camping violently disagrees or feels that someone is challenging or criticizing him the first thing he says is “Excuse me.” That's his way of entering into a condemnation of what has been said as being directed against himself as the “anointed prophet of God.” First he says that other pastors won't admit their mistakes because of pride, but that they aren't maintaining their credibility when they do that. Well, he should realize that by not admitting his mistake he is not maintaining his credibility either. He just looks worse for not admitting he is totally wrong and taking responsibility. You might at least respect someone who owns up to something this awful. Now he tells us that someone has sent him a way out of his mess to save face and not admit his failure, and he gropes at it as a lifeline from God. The fact is, the excuse he has given, that it was an invisible rapture (which is a ridiculous notion) did come from a friend of his who was trying to bail him out of this mess. The credibility that has been destroyed is ours. Those of us who are preaching God's truth are now subjects of mockery when we try to tell people the Lord will be returning one day soon. Now we look like the fools and our message is ignored and scoffed at. He is right that God resists the proud, and nobody has more pride than Camping. If humility is a sign of being God's child, he is definitely not among the children. Now he quotes a verse that says to work out your salvation, and tells people they have to work it out? What happened to “We can't do anything to get salvation, not repentance, not faith, nothing, because it all has to do with God electing us. So we do nothing except cry for mercy and hope we are one of the elect.” Does he even listen to himself. I do believe we have to work out our salvation in that once we repent and accept the Lord as our Savior and the Lord and master of our lives, we have to work at maintaining that relationship with Him, as I do believe we can walk away from Him. I know that from watching two of my closest friends through this debacle. They went from being solid Christians who had a hold on truth to cult followers of Camping. They have accepted his excuses for this “invisible” rapture, as far as I know (one is no longer talking to me, which indicates she is still on board with him, and the other seems to be waiting for October). As a consequence of this, I believe they are no longer on the path to salvation. They are no longer working it out by maintaining their relationship with God, as they have abandoned God and His truth and replaced him with Camping as their God and his lies for their truth. Unless they repent before they die, I believe they will find themselves not annihilated, as he teaches the non-elect will be, but spending the rest of eternity in hell. Camping says that he thanks God for guiding him. It is not God who is guiding him, it is Satan and Camping's own arrogant pride. He thanks God for allowing him to walk humbly and not show how “smart” or wise he is. He credits his revelations to his ability (his smartness) to do all these math calculations (which is a bunch of bogus numerology). Then he calls anyone who questions his “smartness” a mocker of God. Yes, that is true humility.
Question: How do you personally feel about the woman who tried to kill her life and her two daughters' lives?” (A woman tried to kill her daughters and herself on May 20 fearing the wrath of God.)
Camping: Murdering is terrible. It is contrary to everything the Bible teaches. That would have been a horrible thing if she has done that. That will make me weep. That will fill me with sorrow that she would do that. The Bible teaches that we are to save life, not kill. If it is going to be death, leave it to God. God knows who He wants to kill and make alive. That is His business, not our business.
Question: Do you take any responsibility for that?
Camping: I don't have any responsibility. I can't be responsible for anybody's lives. I am only teaching the Bible. I am not teaching what I believe, as if I am the authority. I am just simply teaching what the Bible says. And I don't have spiritual rule over anybody.
Notice that Camping again denies any culpability in this case. He says he is only teaching what the Bible says, but that is not the case. He is teaching his own heretical teachings of what he has twisted the Bible to mean. He does not take the Bible literally, he takes it allegorically. Therefore he makes it say whatever HE wants it to say. If we want to say what the Bible says, we have to say what it literally says, not interpret it for people as to what we think it means. Discussing what the Bible literally says is permissible, as long as you don't try to change the literal meaning, but when you ignore the very face value of what is said and make it mean something completely different, you are presenting your own gospel, which is what Camping does. And he does have spiritual rule over all of his followers. They take his word on everything, completely ignoring the clear Word of God. If they believe Jesus, they would accept His teaching that NO ONE would know the day or hour of His return except the Father. Camping says Jesus didn't mean what he said and reinterprets that for people. That is not teaching the Bible, that is teaching your own doctrines.
Question: Mr. Camping, you admitted that the Bible is very complex and difficult to interpret. That you made a mistake about what happened on Saturday, that is was spiritual and not physical, even though you guaranteed that it would be physical. How can you now, in good conscience tell your followers that the world would end in October when you have made a mistake interpreting the Bible already?
Camping: I have never, never told anybody that I am infallible. But God and His proofs are infallible, because they come right out of the bible. But what I am saying is that I am not infallible. All I have to do is be honest. That's all. I am trying to be honest with the bible; I am honest with those who are listening to me.
Wait a minute. Camping did not say that he was the one guaranteeing this rapture. He clearly said, and we can prove it from all those billboards, that the BIBLE guaranteed it. He claimed to have been given the key to understanding the Bible on this from God. If he was wrong about declaring that the Bible guaranteed it after saying that he got this information from God, then clearly he is not hearing from the God of the Bible, and clearly he does not understand the Bible at all. Therefore all he has been doing is presenting his own ideas, not the truths of the Bible. Either you understand the truths of the Bible or you don't, and clearly he doesn't. He most definitely is infallible. Actually he has no understanding of the Bible whatsoever. He has done this eleven times now and has been wrong each time. It doesn't matter how many years he has been studying. If he is using incorrect study methods he will always come to incorrect conclusions no matter how many years he studies it. And he is using incorrect methods of interpretation.
Question: You have not publicly apologized. Are you prepared to do it at all?
Camping: If people want me to apologize, I can apologize, yes. I did not have all of that worked out exactly as I should have, or wish I could have had it. That doesn't bother me at all, because I am not a genius. And I pray all the time for wisdom, and when I make an error, I admit, “Yes, I was wrong.” And I have said that already, more than several times tonight. I was wrong. It should be understood spiritually, not physically. Yet the sense of it is still the same. The judgment has come. The world is now under judgment where it was not prior to May 21. Spiritually there is a big difference in the world that we can't detect with our eyes. But we can know from the Bible.
This man never gives up. Notice that the apology and admittance of being wrong is not really an apology and admittance of wrongdoing at all. It is saying that he was simply wrong in that he expected a physical manifestation, but it was spiritual and invisible instead. Nobody will see it, but it did happen. He still has not said that he was wrong. He says when he makes an error he admits it, but he is not admitting it. He is claiming it still happened, it is just that we are all unaware of it. That is like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes where some charlatans use a emporer's pride against him for their own gain. They convince him that they make an invisible cloth that only the truly intelligent and those competent and fit for their job can see. He buys into the idea even though he can't see the cloth. His pride won't let him admit he may not be intelligent and competent (which if he were he would realize he was being conned). So he has some “clothes” made and proceeds to go out and parade through the streets to see if everyone in his empire is as smart as he. Well, everyone has the same pride issue as he does, so they pretend to admire the clothes as he parades naked through the streets. It isn't until some child yells, “But he doesn't have anything on,” that the emperor realizes that everybody is seeing him naked and that he has been a total fool. Camping's pride will not let him admit he is wrong even in the face of his complete and utter failure in the face of the entire world. And his followers pride will not let them admit it either. He is naked, but continues to play the fool as do his followers. Nothing of what he said came true, and trying to say that it did but in a spiritual way does not work. It is just plain stupid to think anybody with any sense would believe this anymore than invisible cloth can be seen by the truly wise and competent.
We will at least be spared the advertising campaign for October 21, 2011 as Camping says that judgment has fallen, therefore nobody can be saved from this point on, so there is no need to promote the date. Besides, this debacle has promoted that date for him already. So he can take the money that people are still sending (believe it or not) and use it for a nice vacation to help him get over this trauma. Now as God will not be spending the next five months pouring out His wrath, (which Camping has rationalized as not happening, because we could never survive more than a few days of God's wrath, much less five months) we will spend the next five months caring out life as normal. And on October 21 life will continue to carry on as normal for all of us except Campingites who will spend the next five months in more anticipation of the end and the rapture. And on October 22 they will again be disappointed and turn to Camping for another excuse. I am sure he will come up with something. I have no idea though as it would seem he must be running out of excuses by now. After all, how many times can God come invisibly or change His mind about a date that He supposedly is supposed to know when it is. He does not seem to be getting the message across to Camping very clearly. One has to wonder what God's problem is. Personally I can tell you that the Bible guarantees that the end of the world will not come on October 21. It doesn't guarantee that there won't be earthquakes, or famines, or wars, or even an “alien” invasion, as we are told to expect these things as the day approaches. But it has told us the exact signs that will precede it, and if we keep close watch for those signs, we will know when the day is close at hand, although we will not know the exact day or hour. Daniel's 70th week has to occur first and that hasn't started yet. The temple has not been built yet. The antichrist or beast has not declared himself God in that temple. The tribulation hasn't happened. The sun hasn't gone dark and the moon hasn't turned to blood. We haven't been hit by an asteroid. The demons of hell have not been let loose to torture mankind for five months. None of the many things that have yet to happen have even begun yet. We still have time. We can only continue to live life, as we were told to do, right up until the day He returns. If you don't know what to expect and watch for, get into your Bible, and take it literally. If you have trouble understanding, read my blog at endtimesstudies.blogspot.com (you may already be there, as I am posting this article on both my blogs) for help. But start at the beginning with the introduction, don't try to jump into the middle. You won't understand what is going on if you do that. I don't try to interpret what God's Word says, as much as try to elucidate the literalness of it more clearly by coordinating it with other passages in the Bible.
Getting back to Harold and his followers thinking he is a true prophet of God, let us take a look at that declaration. What he predicted did not come true. Period. It simply did not happen in any respect. Scripture is very clear about this sort of thing. Deuteronomy 18:20,22 “But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die..... When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.” In retrospect he says he “misunderstood.” Did any of God's true prophets ever misunderstand the prophecies they were given? When they spoke, the thing came true, in a very visible, physical way. Christ came very visibly when He first came. He did not come “spiritually.” Now let us take a look at and compare Camping to another so-called “prophet” of God, such as Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The similarities might astound you.
“Russell was a charismatic figure, but claimed no special revelation or vision for his teachings and no special authority on his own behalf. He stated that he did not seek to found a new denomination, but instead intended merely to gather together those who were seeking the truth of God's Word "during this harvest time." He wrote that the "clear unfolding of truth" within his teachings was due to "the simple fact that God's due time has come; and if I did not speak, and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out." He viewed himself—and all other Christians anointed with the Holy Spirit—as "God's mouthpiece" and an ambassador of Christ. Later in his career he accepted without protest that many Bible Students viewed him as the “faithful servant” of Matthew 24:45, and was described by the Watch Tower after his death as having been made "ruler of all the Lord's goods"” (Wickipedia)
Let's compare Camping to Russell. Now I would in no way call Harold charismatic with his boring, droning voice and typical old man looks, but apparently he is very appealing to his followers.
Russell claimed no special revelation, vision,, or authority. Camping claims no special revelation or vision, and says that he has no special authority on his own behalf, but merely speaks the Word of God in the Bible, that He only speaks what the Bible teaches. Yet his very teachings were unheard of until he came up with them. His interpretation via math calculations is a new revelation whether he wants to acknowledge it or not.
Russell said he did not seek to found a new denomination, that it was merely a gathering of those seeking the “truth” of God's word during the “harvest time” or end of the world tribulation period. Harold claims his followers are not a church, as he no longer believes in churches, that they are merely “gathering” to seek the “truth” of God's Word during this “time of tribulation.” However, followers of Camping are a church, in fact they are a cult with him at the helm. They even have a name as do all cult followers. They are called “Campingites.” When a group takes on the name of their leader, it is a clear indication that it has become a cultish group.
Russell said that he was teaching the “clear unfolding of truth” due to the fact that “God's due time has come” and if he did not speak there might be no other agent than the very stones to cry out. Camping has said that God teaches through the book of Daniel that at the time of the end this sealed book would be unsealed so that we might understand, due to the fact that the end is upon us. Because Camping is the agent God has chosen to understand this new revelation through the unsealing of the book of Daniel, he is the bearer of “truth.”
Russell viewed himself and all of his followers as God's mouthpieces and ambassadors to relate this truth to the world. Camping sees himself and his followers, who are part of the “true” church, having left the “Satan controlled” churches as the ones chosen to bring this truth to the world. Russell accepted the title of “faithful servant” from his followers. Camping accepts his followers making him “God's servant the prophet” according to the verse he and they constantly quote in Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” So far the parallel is uncanny.
He and his group believed they had found significant errors in common Christian belief. As a result of such study, the Russell believed he had gained a clearer understanding of true Christianity. Russell wrote many articles, books, tracts, pamphlets and sermons expounding on them. Camping believes he has found significant errors in the basic Christian beliefs. As a result he has a better understanding of true Christianity than anyone else, and especially the churches. He has written a number of books, pamphlets, and teaches on his radio show.
Russell was introduced to some new views that convinced him, amongst other things, that those Christians who were asleep in death would be raised in April, 1878. When 1878 arrived, failure of the expected rapture of the saints brought great disappointment for Russell, his associates and followers. Confused by what was perceived to be an error in calculation, Russell re-examined the doctrine to see if he could determine whether it had biblical origins or was simply Christian tradition. Following his analytical examination of the Bible, Russell and other Bible Students came to believe that Christian creeds and traditions were harmful errors which had led to the mistake. His conclusion that it was tradition led him to begin teaching, through the pages of the Herald, what he believed to have discovered on the subject. He believed he had restored Christianity to the purity held in the first century. Such views and conclusions were viewed as heresy by many Church leaders and scholars in his day. Russell had many critics and was often labeled a heretic
Camping's studies convinced him of some radical new views and theological premises. He came to the conclusion that the rapture/resurrection would first occur on September 6, 1994. When that arrived and passed uneventful, it brought great disappointment for him and his followers. He re-examined his calculations and said that he had found an error. Camping then wrote new books showing his new discovery of where he went wrong and what the real date was supposed to be. Camping has come to believe that Christian creeds and traditions are harmful errors and has abandoned most Biblical doctrines as well as Scriptural mandates such as communion and baptism. He believes he has the only true version of Christianity, as he says even Jesus could not save anybody when He was here. Camping is labeled a heretic and cult leader by all of mainstream Christendom from liberals to evangelical fundamentalists.
When it comes to doctrines, Russell agreed with other Protestants on the primacy of the Bible, and justification by faith alone, but thought that errors had been introduced in interpretation. Russell agreed with many 19th century Protestants, including Millerites, in the concept of a Great Apostasy that began in the first century AD. He also agreed with many other contemporary Protestants in belief in the imminent Second Coming of Christ, and Armageddon. Some of the areas in which his Scriptural interpretations differed from those of Catholics, and many Protestants, include the following:
Hell - Russell maintained that there was a heavenly resurrection of 144,000 righteous, as well as a "great multitude", but believed that the remainder of mankind slept in death, awaiting an earthly resurrection.
The Trinity - Russell believed in the divinity of Christ, but differed from orthodoxy by teaching Jesus had received that divinity as a gift from the Father, after dying on the cross. He also taught that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but the manifestation of God's power.
Christ's Second Coming. -Russell believe that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874, and that he had been ruling from heavens since that date. He predicted that a period known as the "Gentile Times" would end in 1914, and that Christ would take power of Earth's affairs at that time. He interpreted the outbreak of World War I as the beginning of Armageddon, which he viewed to be both a gradual deterioration of civilized society, and a climactic multi-national attack on a restored Israel accompanied by worldwide anarchy.
Camping has altered many fundamental doctrines of the Bible. He does not believe in salvation by repentance and justification by faith. He believes solely in election as the means of salvation. This means that one need not even know Jesus Christ and repentance is a work, and one cannot work for salvation, therefore repentance is not a requirement. He does believe in a Great Apostasy and in fact teaches that Satan entered the churches in 1988 (conveniently the year he was thrown out of his church for heresy), therefore nobody can be saved in them since that time, nor is anybody remaining in them saved. He believes in a Second Coming and final Day of Wrath to destroy the earth. Other similarities in beliefs to Russell are:
Hell – the wicked are resurrected for judgment day at which time they will be permanently annihilated. 200 million will be raptured/resurrected for eternity.
The Trinity - is more of a modality, meaning that God exists as three people, but not at the same time. Jesus originally existed as Michael (which the Jehovah's Witnesses also teach) but was granted divinity and became the Son of God upon the resurrection.
The Second Coming - Camping said that in 1988 God judged the churches and nobody was saved from that time until September 1994 (which was his original rapture date) when the tribulation (which he now extended from seven years to seventeen) began. Because his predicted date of the Second Coming failed, he now says that God came on May 21, 2011 invisibly and judged the world. Since that day, nobody has or will be saved. The end is supposed to come on October 21, 2011 (which it obviously will not) and God's wrath has been reduced from five months to one day.
In 1881, Russell founded Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses). His Bible study group had grown to hundreds of local members, with followers throughout New England, the Virginias, Ohio, and elsewhere who annually re-elected him "Pastor", and commonly referred to him as "Pastor Russell". Congregations that eventually formed in other nations also followed this tradition. In 1988 Camping was thrown out of his church and founded his fellowship (he refuses to call it a church, since he said that Satan rules in the churches). It has local members and he has convinced his national and international followers to leave their churches and worship with him on Sundays via the radio. They look to him as their pastor, even though he refuses the title, because he says that pastors are controlled by Satan.
Russell's views and management style were strongly criticized by certain individuals associated with his ministry. They accused Russell of being a dictatorial leader and a shrewd businessman. He accused those involved as being “guided by Satan in an attempt to subvert his work” as a “minister of the gospel.” Camping's views and management style are criticized by a number of his employees. They accuse him of being a dictatorial leader who takes criticism from nobody. He has raked in millions of dollars from gullible followers. He accuses anyone who disagrees with or criticizes him as being a wicked person who is mocking and challenging God, as if challenging him and God are the same thing. Many of his employees do not agree with his teachings and those who dare voice it are summarily dismissed from their jobs.
Russell had no qualifications as a minister and his moral example was not very Christian. He admitted he knew nothing about Latin and Hebrew, and that he had never taken a course in philosophy or systematic theology. He believed that his ordination was “of God” according to the “biblical pattern”, not requiring any denominational approval. Camping has no qualifications to teach except that he says he has studied the Bible for 50 years. He is an engineer. He claims to know Hebrew and Latin but checking up on him shows that he does not. He looks up words in a concordance and merely makes them mean what he needs them to mean for any particular verse. He believes he is anointed by God as a prophet and he need not be accountable to anyone for anything, whether it is his doctrine or his behavior. He feels no responsibility towards the financial losses his followers have suffered at his hands just blowing it off as their problem.
Russell's followers considered themselves to be “in the truth.” Jehovah's Witnesses consider secular society to be morally corrupt and under the influence of Satan and limit their social interaction with everyone other than their own. Camping's followers consider themselves to be the only ones in “truth” and consider that everyone else, including Christians in the churches to be under the influence of Satan.
Russell came up with dates for the Second Coming based on calculations of measurements of the Great Pyramid of Giza, which he felt had been built by the Hebrews. The key to interpreting these measurements came from information in the book of Daniel. Camping came up with the date for the rapture based on math calculations of random numbers found in the Bible. The key to interpretation came from the book of Daniel.
When the 1914 date failed, Russell said that there could be a good number of years of transition between the invisible spiritual rapture and the end. First it would start with the utter destruction of all other Christian denominations. The target dates were set for 1915-1918. Those who left their churches and came to Russell could escape the downfall of Christianity. When nothing happened, these predictions were not said to fail, but to be fulfilled in spiritual ways that they had misunderstood. The next target date for the end was 1925. This date was chosen by a new understanding of the Jubilee years. The comparison to Noah was made in that God has given us even more to know the date than He told Noah 120 years before the fact. 1932 and 1941 also saw the predictions of Armageddon as did 1975.
When Camping's 1994 date failed, he first set a bunch of new dates and, as they failed, said he had come to a new understanding of the tribulation. He said that God began judging the Church in 1988 by leaving them (all denominations) and turning the churches over to the reign of Satan. This would be a transition time. The tribulation then commenced in1994. There would now be a number of years added to the time of tribulation as normally taught, and the new target date for the Second Coming was 2011. Those who left the church and turned to Camping could escape the judgment fate of the Church. When the recent target date of May 21, 2011 failed, Camping suddenly “realized” that he has misunderstood and that it had happened “spiritually” not physically. The prophecy was fulfilled, but it was a spiritual fulfillment that he had not understood before. The next date has been set for October 21, 2011. Both of these dates were calculated using supposed Jubilee years and the date of Noah's Flood. The comparison was made that if God told Noah when the Flood would begin, how much more would he tell us when the rapture would occur.
Russell's own chronology of the Bible said that 1975 was supposed to be the 6000th anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve. The date was also arrived at using the one day equals 1000 years theory. Camping's own chronology of the Bible said that May 21, 2011 was supposed to be the 7000 anniversary of the Flood of Noah. His calculations also used the one day equals 1000 years theory. Both chronologies were wrong.
People sold their possessions and cashed in life insurance policies, etc. in anticipation of the Jehovah's Witnesses date of 1975. After the missed date, they (the date setters) realized their error was a mathematical calculation of the date of creation. The last time they predicted a date was 1994.(Isn't it odd that the dates now collided for Camping and the Jehovah's Witnesses?) In the aftermath of all of the predicted dates from 1914 to 1994, it was denied that they were absolute predictions, but mere speculations that could change as new understanding was brought about through more study. The only chance for salvation for Jehovah's Witnesses is to actively preach the end of the world. To not do this and be caught not doing it when it does happen, will mean to die with the wicked. But that is simply annihilation. Many of Camping's people sold all of their possessions and cashed in their life savings in anticipation of both September 6, 1994 and May 21, 2011. After the dates passed, they denied that it was a false prophecy and say that it is because there was not enough understanding. They believe the only chance for salvation was to actively preach the end of the world is coming. They may or may not be one of the elect, but to die simply means annihilation. Neither the Jehovah's Witnesses nor Campingites will acknowledge that they are deceived and led by false teachers and prophets. They continue to blindly obey and follow these leaders as all cult members do.
Were we to examine other false prophets, we would probably find very similar stories. It is just that the parallel between Russell and the Jehovah's Witnesses and Camping and Family Radio is so eerily close that it is quite astounding
In the end, it seems that it is impossible to help those who are determined to protect their pride and indulge their ignorance of the Scriptures by following not only Camping, but all the false prophets and teachers out there. Our only course of action should be to study the Bible diligently to see that we are not among the deceived. Yeshua told us to not be deceived, that many would come in His name. We should listen and take that literally, because it is most certainly true.
Now again, for the twelfth time Camping is predicting the end of the world. Yes, that is correct, this is not his second or even third try, it is his twelfth. People are simply not aware of the other ten (or more correctly nine as many people are aware of the 1994 debacle) tries as they did not receive the publicity and media attention this last one did. The following is a list of predictions that Camping has made over the years.
Prediction #1 - 1978 – Camping tells his Alameda Church that the rapture would occur that year.
Prediction #2 - Sept. 6, 1994 – Camping predicts end of world (Rosh haShanah) – Writes book 1994?.
Prediction #3 - Sept. 15, 1994 – When Sept. 6 fails, changes to the 15th (Yom Kippur).
Prediction #4 - Sept. 29, 1994 - When Sept. 15 fails, changes to the 29th (Feast of Tabernacles).
Prediction #5 - Oct. 2, 1994 - Claims Christ was born on Oct. 2, 7 BC and would return exactly 2000 years later.
Prediction #6 - Dec. 25, 1994 - Claims Christ will return on Christmas and Bible supports it.
Prediction #7 – March 16, 1995 – Claims Christ will return on Purim. Says it is “Watch #1 of a new wave of dates (rapture/wrath, etc.)
Prediction #8 – Sept. 24, 1995 – Watch #2 – Claims there is Biblical evidence of Christ returning 383 days after Sept. 6, 1994. Also claims Sept. 24 is 721 + 91 Ceros. (A ceros is a little over 18 years – 223 lunar cycles or revolutions. A ceros is the complete revolution of the sun, moon, stars, and planets). Camping claims these revolutions predict the end. Also states that if you divide the 2300 days of Daniel 8 by the number “6” you get 383. Thus you add 383 to Sept. 6 and come to Sept. 24 which ends the 383 days period. This is the day before Rosh haShanah.
Prediction #9 – April 3, 1996 – Watch #3 – Claims there is Biblical evidence of Christ returning 191 days after Sept. 25, 1995 (Rosh haShanah) on Passover 1996. (Passover was actually April 4.)
Prediction #10 – May 3, 1996 – Camping claims a 30 day grace period based on Mark 13:35 (which makes no sense as it says “ Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cock crowing, or in the morning.” This says you won't know the day. He must not have read it carefully.)
Prediction #11 – May 21, 2011 – Camping says rapture/resurrection and judgment will occur exactly 7000 years to the day after Noah's Flood and end of world will come on Oct. 21. (He must not realize Noah did not use the calendar God gave Moses. Noah's Flood started in the second month of the civil calendar, which is what Noah used. Plus the Flood was not 7000 years ago.)
Prediction #12 – Oct. 21, 2011 – Camping says rapture/resurrection and end of world will come. May 21 was an invisible rapture and the end will still come on Oct. 21.
Getting back to his latest failure, I did not hear his post-failure speech live, but between youtube clips and reading articles online, I now know what he said. I have included some transcripts of the interviews, as youtube links may be removed at some point, so putting one in may not work in the future. You can decide for yourself what kind of person he is. While you have the right to disagree with my comments, I have included my thoughts in italics after his answers.
Question: What advice do you give to those who took you literally and gave away all their money or donated to Family Radio and now may not have the funds to survive now until October 21?
Camping: Please understand. We don't advise anybody what to do. We are not in the business of financial advise. We just had a great recession. A great recession. There are lots of people that lost their jobs. There are lots of people that lost their houses. Lots of people Not just a few, but lots of people. And somehow they all survived. They all had maybe a cousin helped them, or a sister, or the city helped them, or maybe they lowered their expense way, way down. Sometimes it was very severe. I will tell you what has happened to the average person that has been faithfully listening to the Family Radio. It is not nearly as grievous as the recent recession where people lost their homes. People cope. And we are not in a business of giving any financial advice. We are in the business of telling people “Look, there is someone you can talk to, that can maybe guide you, maybe help you. And that's God. Come boldly to the throne of grace. Pray without ceasing. I will tell you, it is wonderful. It is wonderful when we get to a point in our life where a lot of times, the best time is when our back is against the world and we don't know where to go, and finally you are pleading with God. “Oh, God, please have mercy, I don't know what to do.” And that could be just the time that when you are really drawn to God like you have never had. Believe me, God is very real.
So Camping is denying ANY responsibility in leaving these people destitute? Homeless, penniless, jobless? Wow. And he is comparing taking their money under false pretenses, as a charlatan con artist as people who are suffering from the economic recession? I don't think there is any comparison. He has deliberately fleeced people of their money telling them they would “save the world.” Now he expects everyone else, their families, their friends, the government to help these people out? Family radio does millions of dollars in business. Maybe they could help them out since they are in part responsible for people being in this state. I say “in part” because these people are equally to blame for listening to him instead of studying their Bible and seeing his errors. I guess he is like any charlatan and figures if people are stupid and gullible enough to believe them, that they deserve what they get. He certainly is copping to that attitude. He doesn't think it is grievous? He isn't the one destitute. He's rolling in dough. He suggests that there is someone who “maybe?” can help them. Yes, God is the ONLY one who can help them at this point. But it doesn't take coming to the throne of God boldly. It takes coming to the throne of God humbly, confessing and repenting of their sin of believing a false prophet and humbly asking God to forgive them and help them out of this dilemma. Just pleading mercy and telling Him you don't know what to do is not going to cut it. He requires confession and repentance for the sin before He'll help out. I love the way Camping feels that it is wonderful that he has helped people get closer to God by taking everything from them.
Questions: I agree with you, so I think that what they have to do, you are saying, is pray because of self-reliance and not rely on someone else's information, because it is maybe incorrect? Just to go within and trust themselves, perhaps? Is that the advice, maybe?
Camping: No, that is the point of prayer. You don't rely on your own understanding. That's the point of prayer. You are relying on God to help you. Now look. I am praying to God. I don't have a job. So I am lying on bed, “Lord have mercy, I need a job. I need a job. Lord have mercy. I need a job. I have a family to support.” But boy, this bed is comfortable, I don't want to get out of this bed. That is pure hypocrisy. We don't go to the Lord like that.
Camping is missing the point of the question, deliberately missing it. The interviewer is saying that people should trust themselves and check up on others and what they are telling them instead of believing everything someone tells them. Especially someone with a really bad track record. Camping is saying that people should not rely on their own gut reaction to someone like him. Of course not. He doesn't want anyone questioning what he says. That could be seen on his Forum talk shows. Any time that someone tried to chastise him or correct him or disagree with him, he would have them cut off so they couldn't talk anymore. He actually told one caller who challenged him that he was challenging God. Camping has a God complex. He thinks he is God, which is why he thinks he knows the date the Christ told us only the Father would know. He changes the topic from relying on someone else's information to relying on someone to support you. He has a habit of changing the subject when it is one he does not want to address.
Questions: Is it safe to say that mainstream population that heard about May 21 didn't believe it? It didn't happen, and now you are saying is, see this is ridiculous, and at best, misguided prediction or some kind of scam. Does it worry that you have hurt the credibility of religion?
Camping: Excuse me, just like what I have said before. Most pastors would never admit they make a mistake, because they are trying to preserve their own credibility in the eyes of those who are listening, or maybe they insist they are maintaining the credibility of the Bible, but the fact is they are not. And all I can do is to go to the Bible, and very humbly say, “Look, I have done some more studying, or somebody has sent me an idea about this phrase, and I checked it out, and I find that I have to make a change.” That does not hurt the credibility of the Bible at all. We are not perfect and God has to keep opening our eyes. God says again and again, He resists the proud and shows mercy to the humble. Verse after verse in the Bible, God resists those who come in their pride. And there is nothing in the world......There is one thing that should be seen in everyone who claims to be the child of God is humility. Whatever I know or whatever I am doing, I have to pray to God altogether. I pray again and again. The verse Philippians 2 where it says work out your own salvation, that is salvation that God has provided, you work it out, and it says, “though it is God who causes you to will and do of His good pleasure.” So even if we do something well done, I can't take any credit at all. Lord, I thank you that you have guided me this way. I am nothing. I will tell you, I can recommend this to anybody. It's a wonderful way to live, when we walk humbly before God. So you are never trying to show how smart you are or how wise you are. I have given all the credit to God and that's where it should go.
Notice when Camping violently disagrees or feels that someone is challenging or criticizing him the first thing he says is “Excuse me.” That's his way of entering into a condemnation of what has been said as being directed against himself as the “anointed prophet of God.” First he says that other pastors won't admit their mistakes because of pride, but that they aren't maintaining their credibility when they do that. Well, he should realize that by not admitting his mistake he is not maintaining his credibility either. He just looks worse for not admitting he is totally wrong and taking responsibility. You might at least respect someone who owns up to something this awful. Now he tells us that someone has sent him a way out of his mess to save face and not admit his failure, and he gropes at it as a lifeline from God. The fact is, the excuse he has given, that it was an invisible rapture (which is a ridiculous notion) did come from a friend of his who was trying to bail him out of this mess. The credibility that has been destroyed is ours. Those of us who are preaching God's truth are now subjects of mockery when we try to tell people the Lord will be returning one day soon. Now we look like the fools and our message is ignored and scoffed at. He is right that God resists the proud, and nobody has more pride than Camping. If humility is a sign of being God's child, he is definitely not among the children. Now he quotes a verse that says to work out your salvation, and tells people they have to work it out? What happened to “We can't do anything to get salvation, not repentance, not faith, nothing, because it all has to do with God electing us. So we do nothing except cry for mercy and hope we are one of the elect.” Does he even listen to himself. I do believe we have to work out our salvation in that once we repent and accept the Lord as our Savior and the Lord and master of our lives, we have to work at maintaining that relationship with Him, as I do believe we can walk away from Him. I know that from watching two of my closest friends through this debacle. They went from being solid Christians who had a hold on truth to cult followers of Camping. They have accepted his excuses for this “invisible” rapture, as far as I know (one is no longer talking to me, which indicates she is still on board with him, and the other seems to be waiting for October). As a consequence of this, I believe they are no longer on the path to salvation. They are no longer working it out by maintaining their relationship with God, as they have abandoned God and His truth and replaced him with Camping as their God and his lies for their truth. Unless they repent before they die, I believe they will find themselves not annihilated, as he teaches the non-elect will be, but spending the rest of eternity in hell. Camping says that he thanks God for guiding him. It is not God who is guiding him, it is Satan and Camping's own arrogant pride. He thanks God for allowing him to walk humbly and not show how “smart” or wise he is. He credits his revelations to his ability (his smartness) to do all these math calculations (which is a bunch of bogus numerology). Then he calls anyone who questions his “smartness” a mocker of God. Yes, that is true humility.
Question: How do you personally feel about the woman who tried to kill her life and her two daughters' lives?” (A woman tried to kill her daughters and herself on May 20 fearing the wrath of God.)
Camping: Murdering is terrible. It is contrary to everything the Bible teaches. That would have been a horrible thing if she has done that. That will make me weep. That will fill me with sorrow that she would do that. The Bible teaches that we are to save life, not kill. If it is going to be death, leave it to God. God knows who He wants to kill and make alive. That is His business, not our business.
Question: Do you take any responsibility for that?
Camping: I don't have any responsibility. I can't be responsible for anybody's lives. I am only teaching the Bible. I am not teaching what I believe, as if I am the authority. I am just simply teaching what the Bible says. And I don't have spiritual rule over anybody.
Notice that Camping again denies any culpability in this case. He says he is only teaching what the Bible says, but that is not the case. He is teaching his own heretical teachings of what he has twisted the Bible to mean. He does not take the Bible literally, he takes it allegorically. Therefore he makes it say whatever HE wants it to say. If we want to say what the Bible says, we have to say what it literally says, not interpret it for people as to what we think it means. Discussing what the Bible literally says is permissible, as long as you don't try to change the literal meaning, but when you ignore the very face value of what is said and make it mean something completely different, you are presenting your own gospel, which is what Camping does. And he does have spiritual rule over all of his followers. They take his word on everything, completely ignoring the clear Word of God. If they believe Jesus, they would accept His teaching that NO ONE would know the day or hour of His return except the Father. Camping says Jesus didn't mean what he said and reinterprets that for people. That is not teaching the Bible, that is teaching your own doctrines.
Question: Mr. Camping, you admitted that the Bible is very complex and difficult to interpret. That you made a mistake about what happened on Saturday, that is was spiritual and not physical, even though you guaranteed that it would be physical. How can you now, in good conscience tell your followers that the world would end in October when you have made a mistake interpreting the Bible already?
Camping: I have never, never told anybody that I am infallible. But God and His proofs are infallible, because they come right out of the bible. But what I am saying is that I am not infallible. All I have to do is be honest. That's all. I am trying to be honest with the bible; I am honest with those who are listening to me.
Wait a minute. Camping did not say that he was the one guaranteeing this rapture. He clearly said, and we can prove it from all those billboards, that the BIBLE guaranteed it. He claimed to have been given the key to understanding the Bible on this from God. If he was wrong about declaring that the Bible guaranteed it after saying that he got this information from God, then clearly he is not hearing from the God of the Bible, and clearly he does not understand the Bible at all. Therefore all he has been doing is presenting his own ideas, not the truths of the Bible. Either you understand the truths of the Bible or you don't, and clearly he doesn't. He most definitely is infallible. Actually he has no understanding of the Bible whatsoever. He has done this eleven times now and has been wrong each time. It doesn't matter how many years he has been studying. If he is using incorrect study methods he will always come to incorrect conclusions no matter how many years he studies it. And he is using incorrect methods of interpretation.
Question: You have not publicly apologized. Are you prepared to do it at all?
Camping: If people want me to apologize, I can apologize, yes. I did not have all of that worked out exactly as I should have, or wish I could have had it. That doesn't bother me at all, because I am not a genius. And I pray all the time for wisdom, and when I make an error, I admit, “Yes, I was wrong.” And I have said that already, more than several times tonight. I was wrong. It should be understood spiritually, not physically. Yet the sense of it is still the same. The judgment has come. The world is now under judgment where it was not prior to May 21. Spiritually there is a big difference in the world that we can't detect with our eyes. But we can know from the Bible.
This man never gives up. Notice that the apology and admittance of being wrong is not really an apology and admittance of wrongdoing at all. It is saying that he was simply wrong in that he expected a physical manifestation, but it was spiritual and invisible instead. Nobody will see it, but it did happen. He still has not said that he was wrong. He says when he makes an error he admits it, but he is not admitting it. He is claiming it still happened, it is just that we are all unaware of it. That is like the story of the Emperor's New Clothes where some charlatans use a emporer's pride against him for their own gain. They convince him that they make an invisible cloth that only the truly intelligent and those competent and fit for their job can see. He buys into the idea even though he can't see the cloth. His pride won't let him admit he may not be intelligent and competent (which if he were he would realize he was being conned). So he has some “clothes” made and proceeds to go out and parade through the streets to see if everyone in his empire is as smart as he. Well, everyone has the same pride issue as he does, so they pretend to admire the clothes as he parades naked through the streets. It isn't until some child yells, “But he doesn't have anything on,” that the emperor realizes that everybody is seeing him naked and that he has been a total fool. Camping's pride will not let him admit he is wrong even in the face of his complete and utter failure in the face of the entire world. And his followers pride will not let them admit it either. He is naked, but continues to play the fool as do his followers. Nothing of what he said came true, and trying to say that it did but in a spiritual way does not work. It is just plain stupid to think anybody with any sense would believe this anymore than invisible cloth can be seen by the truly wise and competent.
We will at least be spared the advertising campaign for October 21, 2011 as Camping says that judgment has fallen, therefore nobody can be saved from this point on, so there is no need to promote the date. Besides, this debacle has promoted that date for him already. So he can take the money that people are still sending (believe it or not) and use it for a nice vacation to help him get over this trauma. Now as God will not be spending the next five months pouring out His wrath, (which Camping has rationalized as not happening, because we could never survive more than a few days of God's wrath, much less five months) we will spend the next five months caring out life as normal. And on October 21 life will continue to carry on as normal for all of us except Campingites who will spend the next five months in more anticipation of the end and the rapture. And on October 22 they will again be disappointed and turn to Camping for another excuse. I am sure he will come up with something. I have no idea though as it would seem he must be running out of excuses by now. After all, how many times can God come invisibly or change His mind about a date that He supposedly is supposed to know when it is. He does not seem to be getting the message across to Camping very clearly. One has to wonder what God's problem is. Personally I can tell you that the Bible guarantees that the end of the world will not come on October 21. It doesn't guarantee that there won't be earthquakes, or famines, or wars, or even an “alien” invasion, as we are told to expect these things as the day approaches. But it has told us the exact signs that will precede it, and if we keep close watch for those signs, we will know when the day is close at hand, although we will not know the exact day or hour. Daniel's 70th week has to occur first and that hasn't started yet. The temple has not been built yet. The antichrist or beast has not declared himself God in that temple. The tribulation hasn't happened. The sun hasn't gone dark and the moon hasn't turned to blood. We haven't been hit by an asteroid. The demons of hell have not been let loose to torture mankind for five months. None of the many things that have yet to happen have even begun yet. We still have time. We can only continue to live life, as we were told to do, right up until the day He returns. If you don't know what to expect and watch for, get into your Bible, and take it literally. If you have trouble understanding, read my blog at endtimesstudies.blogspot.com (you may already be there, as I am posting this article on both my blogs) for help. But start at the beginning with the introduction, don't try to jump into the middle. You won't understand what is going on if you do that. I don't try to interpret what God's Word says, as much as try to elucidate the literalness of it more clearly by coordinating it with other passages in the Bible.
Getting back to Harold and his followers thinking he is a true prophet of God, let us take a look at that declaration. What he predicted did not come true. Period. It simply did not happen in any respect. Scripture is very clear about this sort of thing. Deuteronomy 18:20,22 “But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die..... When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.” In retrospect he says he “misunderstood.” Did any of God's true prophets ever misunderstand the prophecies they were given? When they spoke, the thing came true, in a very visible, physical way. Christ came very visibly when He first came. He did not come “spiritually.” Now let us take a look at and compare Camping to another so-called “prophet” of God, such as Charles Taze Russell, founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The similarities might astound you.
“Russell was a charismatic figure, but claimed no special revelation or vision for his teachings and no special authority on his own behalf. He stated that he did not seek to found a new denomination, but instead intended merely to gather together those who were seeking the truth of God's Word "during this harvest time." He wrote that the "clear unfolding of truth" within his teachings was due to "the simple fact that God's due time has come; and if I did not speak, and no other agent could be found, the very stones would cry out." He viewed himself—and all other Christians anointed with the Holy Spirit—as "God's mouthpiece" and an ambassador of Christ. Later in his career he accepted without protest that many Bible Students viewed him as the “faithful servant” of Matthew 24:45, and was described by the Watch Tower after his death as having been made "ruler of all the Lord's goods"” (Wickipedia)
Let's compare Camping to Russell. Now I would in no way call Harold charismatic with his boring, droning voice and typical old man looks, but apparently he is very appealing to his followers.
Russell claimed no special revelation, vision,, or authority. Camping claims no special revelation or vision, and says that he has no special authority on his own behalf, but merely speaks the Word of God in the Bible, that He only speaks what the Bible teaches. Yet his very teachings were unheard of until he came up with them. His interpretation via math calculations is a new revelation whether he wants to acknowledge it or not.
Russell said he did not seek to found a new denomination, that it was merely a gathering of those seeking the “truth” of God's word during the “harvest time” or end of the world tribulation period. Harold claims his followers are not a church, as he no longer believes in churches, that they are merely “gathering” to seek the “truth” of God's Word during this “time of tribulation.” However, followers of Camping are a church, in fact they are a cult with him at the helm. They even have a name as do all cult followers. They are called “Campingites.” When a group takes on the name of their leader, it is a clear indication that it has become a cultish group.
Russell said that he was teaching the “clear unfolding of truth” due to the fact that “God's due time has come” and if he did not speak there might be no other agent than the very stones to cry out. Camping has said that God teaches through the book of Daniel that at the time of the end this sealed book would be unsealed so that we might understand, due to the fact that the end is upon us. Because Camping is the agent God has chosen to understand this new revelation through the unsealing of the book of Daniel, he is the bearer of “truth.”
Russell viewed himself and all of his followers as God's mouthpieces and ambassadors to relate this truth to the world. Camping sees himself and his followers, who are part of the “true” church, having left the “Satan controlled” churches as the ones chosen to bring this truth to the world. Russell accepted the title of “faithful servant” from his followers. Camping accepts his followers making him “God's servant the prophet” according to the verse he and they constantly quote in Amos 3:7 “Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” So far the parallel is uncanny.
He and his group believed they had found significant errors in common Christian belief. As a result of such study, the Russell believed he had gained a clearer understanding of true Christianity. Russell wrote many articles, books, tracts, pamphlets and sermons expounding on them. Camping believes he has found significant errors in the basic Christian beliefs. As a result he has a better understanding of true Christianity than anyone else, and especially the churches. He has written a number of books, pamphlets, and teaches on his radio show.
Russell was introduced to some new views that convinced him, amongst other things, that those Christians who were asleep in death would be raised in April, 1878. When 1878 arrived, failure of the expected rapture of the saints brought great disappointment for Russell, his associates and followers. Confused by what was perceived to be an error in calculation, Russell re-examined the doctrine to see if he could determine whether it had biblical origins or was simply Christian tradition. Following his analytical examination of the Bible, Russell and other Bible Students came to believe that Christian creeds and traditions were harmful errors which had led to the mistake. His conclusion that it was tradition led him to begin teaching, through the pages of the Herald, what he believed to have discovered on the subject. He believed he had restored Christianity to the purity held in the first century. Such views and conclusions were viewed as heresy by many Church leaders and scholars in his day. Russell had many critics and was often labeled a heretic
Camping's studies convinced him of some radical new views and theological premises. He came to the conclusion that the rapture/resurrection would first occur on September 6, 1994. When that arrived and passed uneventful, it brought great disappointment for him and his followers. He re-examined his calculations and said that he had found an error. Camping then wrote new books showing his new discovery of where he went wrong and what the real date was supposed to be. Camping has come to believe that Christian creeds and traditions are harmful errors and has abandoned most Biblical doctrines as well as Scriptural mandates such as communion and baptism. He believes he has the only true version of Christianity, as he says even Jesus could not save anybody when He was here. Camping is labeled a heretic and cult leader by all of mainstream Christendom from liberals to evangelical fundamentalists.
When it comes to doctrines, Russell agreed with other Protestants on the primacy of the Bible, and justification by faith alone, but thought that errors had been introduced in interpretation. Russell agreed with many 19th century Protestants, including Millerites, in the concept of a Great Apostasy that began in the first century AD. He also agreed with many other contemporary Protestants in belief in the imminent Second Coming of Christ, and Armageddon. Some of the areas in which his Scriptural interpretations differed from those of Catholics, and many Protestants, include the following:
Hell - Russell maintained that there was a heavenly resurrection of 144,000 righteous, as well as a "great multitude", but believed that the remainder of mankind slept in death, awaiting an earthly resurrection.
The Trinity - Russell believed in the divinity of Christ, but differed from orthodoxy by teaching Jesus had received that divinity as a gift from the Father, after dying on the cross. He also taught that the Holy Spirit is not a person, but the manifestation of God's power.
Christ's Second Coming. -Russell believe that Christ had returned invisibly in 1874, and that he had been ruling from heavens since that date. He predicted that a period known as the "Gentile Times" would end in 1914, and that Christ would take power of Earth's affairs at that time. He interpreted the outbreak of World War I as the beginning of Armageddon, which he viewed to be both a gradual deterioration of civilized society, and a climactic multi-national attack on a restored Israel accompanied by worldwide anarchy.
Camping has altered many fundamental doctrines of the Bible. He does not believe in salvation by repentance and justification by faith. He believes solely in election as the means of salvation. This means that one need not even know Jesus Christ and repentance is a work, and one cannot work for salvation, therefore repentance is not a requirement. He does believe in a Great Apostasy and in fact teaches that Satan entered the churches in 1988 (conveniently the year he was thrown out of his church for heresy), therefore nobody can be saved in them since that time, nor is anybody remaining in them saved. He believes in a Second Coming and final Day of Wrath to destroy the earth. Other similarities in beliefs to Russell are:
Hell – the wicked are resurrected for judgment day at which time they will be permanently annihilated. 200 million will be raptured/resurrected for eternity.
The Trinity - is more of a modality, meaning that God exists as three people, but not at the same time. Jesus originally existed as Michael (which the Jehovah's Witnesses also teach) but was granted divinity and became the Son of God upon the resurrection.
The Second Coming - Camping said that in 1988 God judged the churches and nobody was saved from that time until September 1994 (which was his original rapture date) when the tribulation (which he now extended from seven years to seventeen) began. Because his predicted date of the Second Coming failed, he now says that God came on May 21, 2011 invisibly and judged the world. Since that day, nobody has or will be saved. The end is supposed to come on October 21, 2011 (which it obviously will not) and God's wrath has been reduced from five months to one day.
In 1881, Russell founded Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society (Jehovah's Witnesses). His Bible study group had grown to hundreds of local members, with followers throughout New England, the Virginias, Ohio, and elsewhere who annually re-elected him "Pastor", and commonly referred to him as "Pastor Russell". Congregations that eventually formed in other nations also followed this tradition. In 1988 Camping was thrown out of his church and founded his fellowship (he refuses to call it a church, since he said that Satan rules in the churches). It has local members and he has convinced his national and international followers to leave their churches and worship with him on Sundays via the radio. They look to him as their pastor, even though he refuses the title, because he says that pastors are controlled by Satan.
Russell's views and management style were strongly criticized by certain individuals associated with his ministry. They accused Russell of being a dictatorial leader and a shrewd businessman. He accused those involved as being “guided by Satan in an attempt to subvert his work” as a “minister of the gospel.” Camping's views and management style are criticized by a number of his employees. They accuse him of being a dictatorial leader who takes criticism from nobody. He has raked in millions of dollars from gullible followers. He accuses anyone who disagrees with or criticizes him as being a wicked person who is mocking and challenging God, as if challenging him and God are the same thing. Many of his employees do not agree with his teachings and those who dare voice it are summarily dismissed from their jobs.
Russell had no qualifications as a minister and his moral example was not very Christian. He admitted he knew nothing about Latin and Hebrew, and that he had never taken a course in philosophy or systematic theology. He believed that his ordination was “of God” according to the “biblical pattern”, not requiring any denominational approval. Camping has no qualifications to teach except that he says he has studied the Bible for 50 years. He is an engineer. He claims to know Hebrew and Latin but checking up on him shows that he does not. He looks up words in a concordance and merely makes them mean what he needs them to mean for any particular verse. He believes he is anointed by God as a prophet and he need not be accountable to anyone for anything, whether it is his doctrine or his behavior. He feels no responsibility towards the financial losses his followers have suffered at his hands just blowing it off as their problem.
Russell's followers considered themselves to be “in the truth.” Jehovah's Witnesses consider secular society to be morally corrupt and under the influence of Satan and limit their social interaction with everyone other than their own. Camping's followers consider themselves to be the only ones in “truth” and consider that everyone else, including Christians in the churches to be under the influence of Satan.
Russell came up with dates for the Second Coming based on calculations of measurements of the Great Pyramid of Giza, which he felt had been built by the Hebrews. The key to interpreting these measurements came from information in the book of Daniel. Camping came up with the date for the rapture based on math calculations of random numbers found in the Bible. The key to interpretation came from the book of Daniel.
When the 1914 date failed, Russell said that there could be a good number of years of transition between the invisible spiritual rapture and the end. First it would start with the utter destruction of all other Christian denominations. The target dates were set for 1915-1918. Those who left their churches and came to Russell could escape the downfall of Christianity. When nothing happened, these predictions were not said to fail, but to be fulfilled in spiritual ways that they had misunderstood. The next target date for the end was 1925. This date was chosen by a new understanding of the Jubilee years. The comparison to Noah was made in that God has given us even more to know the date than He told Noah 120 years before the fact. 1932 and 1941 also saw the predictions of Armageddon as did 1975.
When Camping's 1994 date failed, he first set a bunch of new dates and, as they failed, said he had come to a new understanding of the tribulation. He said that God began judging the Church in 1988 by leaving them (all denominations) and turning the churches over to the reign of Satan. This would be a transition time. The tribulation then commenced in1994. There would now be a number of years added to the time of tribulation as normally taught, and the new target date for the Second Coming was 2011. Those who left the church and turned to Camping could escape the judgment fate of the Church. When the recent target date of May 21, 2011 failed, Camping suddenly “realized” that he has misunderstood and that it had happened “spiritually” not physically. The prophecy was fulfilled, but it was a spiritual fulfillment that he had not understood before. The next date has been set for October 21, 2011. Both of these dates were calculated using supposed Jubilee years and the date of Noah's Flood. The comparison was made that if God told Noah when the Flood would begin, how much more would he tell us when the rapture would occur.
Russell's own chronology of the Bible said that 1975 was supposed to be the 6000th anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve. The date was also arrived at using the one day equals 1000 years theory. Camping's own chronology of the Bible said that May 21, 2011 was supposed to be the 7000 anniversary of the Flood of Noah. His calculations also used the one day equals 1000 years theory. Both chronologies were wrong.
People sold their possessions and cashed in life insurance policies, etc. in anticipation of the Jehovah's Witnesses date of 1975. After the missed date, they (the date setters) realized their error was a mathematical calculation of the date of creation. The last time they predicted a date was 1994.(Isn't it odd that the dates now collided for Camping and the Jehovah's Witnesses?) In the aftermath of all of the predicted dates from 1914 to 1994, it was denied that they were absolute predictions, but mere speculations that could change as new understanding was brought about through more study. The only chance for salvation for Jehovah's Witnesses is to actively preach the end of the world. To not do this and be caught not doing it when it does happen, will mean to die with the wicked. But that is simply annihilation. Many of Camping's people sold all of their possessions and cashed in their life savings in anticipation of both September 6, 1994 and May 21, 2011. After the dates passed, they denied that it was a false prophecy and say that it is because there was not enough understanding. They believe the only chance for salvation was to actively preach the end of the world is coming. They may or may not be one of the elect, but to die simply means annihilation. Neither the Jehovah's Witnesses nor Campingites will acknowledge that they are deceived and led by false teachers and prophets. They continue to blindly obey and follow these leaders as all cult members do.
Were we to examine other false prophets, we would probably find very similar stories. It is just that the parallel between Russell and the Jehovah's Witnesses and Camping and Family Radio is so eerily close that it is quite astounding
In the end, it seems that it is impossible to help those who are determined to protect their pride and indulge their ignorance of the Scriptures by following not only Camping, but all the false prophets and teachers out there. Our only course of action should be to study the Bible diligently to see that we are not among the deceived. Yeshua told us to not be deceived, that many would come in His name. We should listen and take that literally, because it is most certainly true.
Sunday, May 15, 2011
Judgment Begins With the House of God
1 Peter 4:17 “For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
If Peter said this to the audience of his day, how much more is it applicable to us today, many of whom will no doubt see the Coming of the Lord? The indications are there that God has already begun to sift the wheat from the chaff of this generation to decide who will have to suffer the Great Tribulation, and whom He will preserve through it. Ever since the church came into existence there has been apostasy. One need only read Paul's letters to see that. Doctrines of demons, wolves in sheep's clothing being leaders of the flock, corruptions of the gifts of the Spirit – all of these things have been a constant enemy to battle. Yet the church survived and continued as generation after generation of people saw this apostasy and split away from the institution of the church to try to weed out the yeast. They would begin new churches under new names calling people back to repentance and the literal interpretation of God's Word, trying to weed out man's traditions and heresies. The remnant has always been a small group bucking the system of religion that reigns in Christ's name. But God forewarned that at the time of the end, the apostasy would be greater than ever, just as the Tribulation that they would enter into would be the worst in the history of the world. Given that information, and most Christians (here I will specify Christians as referring to true born-again believers, not people who identify with a denomination but have no personal relationship with the Lord) believing that we are in the end times, one would think that every Christian would be studying their Bibles diligently and be very wary of every new doctrine or “way of doing things” that comes into the church, and some have. But that “some” represents a very small percentage of those who attend church and call themselves Christians. Most tend to not have a clue what their Bible really says, as they expect to be spoon fed the information (regardless of whether it is erroneous or not) by their pastors and teachers. Most have bought into the idea that it is not a personal command to go out and preach the gospel, but feel it is the church's (meaning their place of worship) duty to do the witnessing for them. As a result, the idea of making church a palatable place for non-believers to come, be entertained, and receive some watered down, inoffensive message about salvation has become the goal of most congregations. This is in direct opposition to what the Bible teaches the local church is supposed to be, a place where believers meet to worship corporately, praise and thank God, study the Scriptures to grow in understanding and wisdom, pray for the body's needs, and fellowship together for encouragement and camaraderie. It is not meant to be a place to bring people to be saved, although that can sometimes be a side-effect.
Because of this disobedience to shift away from personal responsibility to corporate responsibility, Satan used the foot in the door to bring in more paths to perdition. Rather than preach the Word, which we are told will be an offense, the social gospel, and other damnable heresies like the prosperity gospel began to creep in. Where that did not work, other truths were distorted and corrupted. New Age beliefs began to be brought in. Now churches have yoga classes and other occult practices given as part of their reaching-out-to-the-community programs. The music changed. Originally the church sang the psalms. Then there were hymns that praised God. Then the hymns began to focus on man's blessings from God, then man's response to God. Then the music started to move away from the style that was solely identified with the church to music that sounded exactly like the world's. Then the music became solely the world's music, first with some oblique references to God thrown in, and finally with the words focusing on man with occasional oblique references to some higher entity or power, not necessarily the God of the Bible. Instead of worship praising God, meetings have become entertainment for social purposes. Bibles have been removed from the pews, and the Lord's Supper eliminated for being offensive to non-believers. God has become a person who loves everyone and will not be judgmental, so there are not only no standards anymore as to what behavior is acceptable, but also what qualifies for getting into heaven.
Has it crossed anyone's mind as to why God is allowing things to go so far this time? I believe it is because the final judgment has commenced. God is separating those who love and obey Him from those who want to have itching ears, or are like the chaff in the wind blowing about with any doctrine that they find interesting or pleasing for their comfort. False prophets and teachers are in abundance. One cannot travel very far anymore without seeing billboards of one group or another announcing the end of the world on a particular day. At the moment of this writing, I know of three different groups setting a date. All different of course, based on their "infallible leaders' " twisted versions of the Bible. The fact that we are told by God that we cannot do this has not stopped them. They “know” and they are “right.” Within the churches are those who have seen the apostasy and have left the church to start home churches. This was a good move at the beginning, but as usual, people are lazy, preferring to be spoon fed, and do not want the responsibility of answering straight to God without that intermediary pastor to blame when something goes wrong, so do not trust the Lord to be their only Shepherd. Just as Israel clamored for a king so as to be like everyone else, not trusting God's system of judges whom He would divinely appoint and who would judge according to the Spirit given to them, people feel the need for a pastor or leader. As a consequence, those who initially are the wheat leaving behind the room full of chaff, make themselves more slaves to Satan's deceptions by turning to the wolves outside the church who are looking to devour them. Thus they end up worse than before, becoming a part of some cult.
At first I wondered how this could be happening, and why. Having seen several friends fall into this last category, friends whom I was persuaded loved the Lord with all their heart, and who left the church due to apostasy, I went to the Lord asking for wisdom to understand what was happening. I was brought to the verse at the beginning of this article and led to understand that it is all a part of the sifting process. God has allowed Satan to enter the churches and defile them. This is the first sifting of those who embrace the turning from God from those who stay and tolerate it while not approving, and those who shake the dust from their feet and leave. Those who turn from God will probably be lost. Those who stay and tolerate will find themselves thrown into tribulation to refine them. The next sifting comes to those who come out of the church. He needs to find out who will follow and rely solely on Him, and who insists upon having a human shepherd. I believe the reason for this sifting is that, as the Tribulation approaches we will have no one but the Lord to guide us, and He needs to separate those who have studied and know His Word, having had Him teach it to them, and who have learned to hear His voice and instructions, from those who will listen to man and can be deceived .
I believe the next sifting comes on a much more personal level. I have noticed that God seems to be taking away some of His protective hand from His faithful servants and allowing Satan to attack them in their Achilles heel. Whatever your weakest point, if you have passed the tests to this point, you can be sure that Satan will go after your weak spot to try and tempt you and drag you away from the Lord that way. To qualify as one of the remaining remnant, one must be living a life in which striving for holiness is a daily quest. The Ten Commandments are our guide. Granted, meeting that goal may not always happen, but repentance and continuing to fight the good fight and finish the race is for what God is looking. We should be able to say as Paul did “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.” 2 Timothy 4:7. We are running in a race which we can lose if we are not careful. 1 Corinthians 9:24 “Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.” Judgment is happening all along the way on this path to the finish line. For those who fail along the way, they can expect to be one of those for whom the sword is waiting during the Tribulation. They might make it to heaven, but it may be through a trial by fire. 1 Peter 4:12-13 “Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.” The timing of this is “when his glory shall be revealed.” That means that this fiery trial will be around the time of His return. Note that Peter is saying that they will think that this fiery trial is a strange thing, or something they were not expecting. How many do not believe they will go through the Tribulation, but be raptured beforehand? One of the so-called rapture dates predicted lies only six days away (the May 21, 2011 one) from the writing of this article. These people came out of the apostate church, but then wanted to hear that they would not suffer, as they were godly Christians, who did not condone the apostasy. They deserve to be rescued do they not? How our pride can deceive us. We deserve nothing but hell. It is only through Christ's blood that we can even aspire to receive God's forgiveness. Pride is a dangerous creature. It can lead us astray so easily. When one thinks they are incapable of being deceived, at that moment Satan has you. He will find something that you really desire (in this case people wanted a way out of tribulation) and he will find a way to convince you that you can have it. If these people were studying their Bibles, instead of taking this man's words as gospel truth and never checking on him, they would not have been led down the primrose path. God would have been able to show them where he is in error and they could have been saved. Instead, they traded comforting words for possibly their very salvation.
People often condemn me for preaching that we will suffer, as they say that is not looking for Christ, but for the antichrist. Really? When did Christ say we would never suffer? That is not what I read in my Bible. I read to take up my cross and follow Him. I read that the trying of our faith brings patience. Do you not look all the more for Christ's return if you are enduring terrible hardships and trials? I know I need to be refined. I am very aware how far from perfect and righteous I am. I know I do not deserve an easy “out.” I am scared to death that I could be deceived, if I am not extremely vigilant. I have seen it happen to others. I do not look forward to the Tribulation, but look through and beyond it to my salvation which waits on the other side. How much more incentive do I have to live a holy life, if I know what lies in the balance?
God's judgment on His house has begun. The sifting process is underway. Are you wheat? Or are you chaff?
*When this was written, it was a week before Harold Camping's May 21, 2011 prediction. It is now November, 2011. Not only did the rapture not happen on May 21, but the end of the world that he predicted to happen on October 21, 2011 did not happen either. It appears he is studying to yet put out another date, and there are people who are still following him. How many times must one be fooled and deceived, before one can humble themselves, admit their sin of pride, and turn from what is obviously a false prophet? No wonder God needs to put the Church through tribulation. They need to learn something.
Saturday, April 30, 2011
How Many Animals Did Noah Take On the Ark?
One of the many so-called contradictions that Bible antagonists love to point to is the fact that in one verse it says Noah took two of every creature, and in another that he took seven. So is this in fact a contradiction, or is it just a deliberate refusal to understand what is quite obvious in order to justify a rebellious attitude of rejecting God? I think the latter is more the case than the former. So let us take a look at how many animals Noah took. First let us consider all of the verses pertaining to this.
Genesis 6:19 “And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female. Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.”
In this verse it says that Noah was to take two of every sort. But does it mean only two, or is there a qualifier that indicates how “two” is meant? What if he grabbed just any two? Would that have worked? Obviously not, since procreation was the objective. So comes the qualifier - male and female. So what is He saying when it says two of every sort? What is meant is that a pair, which we know to be two in number, is to be taken. A pair by definition being male and female. So this is supposed to be read with this understanding. From all the animal world, take them by pairs into the ark. This is the general direction given to Noah. When giving information to people, it is best to start in a general sense and move on to details. That is how journalism works. A reporter is taught to give a quick synopsis with the who, what, when, where, why, and how in the first paragraph, but not the details. Then in following paragraphs he slowly gives out more and more details, never knowing where the editor will chop it off due to space constraints. When one studies the Scriptures in totality, one finds that God likes to use journalistic techniques in His writing. That is why you find the creation story initially covering the main events of each day, but not the details of them. The details come in a later chapter. As do the details of God's instructions to Noah.
Genesis 7:2-3 “Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.”
Now we get a little more detailed information, just as mentioned before. God gave the message that Noah will have to take pairs of every animal in the ark. God was giving Noah a major cataclysmic piece of prophecy. It was a devastating piece of news that no doubt had Noah reeling. The only thing that was important at this juncture was to simply relate the message of building the ark, its dimensions, and its purpose. That was why he was told about the animals. He needed to understand the ark's purpose and how the building of it would have to accommodate the taking on of pairs of animals. So first Noah got the message that the world was going to be destroyed in 120 years, second that he had to build an ark, and last the reason for the size, which was that he would have to get at least a pair of every kind of species together to put on the ark. This was to let him know that all life on earth including the animals were going to be destroyed. Now comes 120 years later and God moves on to more details as Noah has to actually load the animals on the ark. Generalizations are no longer good enough and God has to get very specific. Noah is told that he has to take what are called “clean”beasts by sevens. Three pairs, and a spare. Birds also are to be taken by sevens. They are still two by two, as three pairs are three sets of two. This group goes in two by two by two. The spare is for another reason. The gender seems to be inconsequential, because of its purpose.
Genesis 7:8-9 “Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, there went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.”
Now we have a recap. There is no need for the same details, as you have already been given them. What is important now, is what occurs next with the animals, not how many of them there are. You already have that information. So they go in the ark by pairs. The unclean go in by one pair each, and the clean by three pairs each. One assumes the spares walk in on their own or with another animal.
Genesis 7:14-15 “They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.”
This is just another recap of the situation. Again, he specifies that they went in by pairs, male and female of all the animals. You are already supposed to remember that some are by three pairs each and some by one pair each. You are expected to have enough intelligence to keep up with the story.
Now we come down to what the spare was for.
Genesis 8:15-20 “And God spake unto Noah, saying, Go forth of the ark, thou, and thy wife, and thy sons, and thy sons' wives with thee. Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth. And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him. Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark. And Noah builded an altar unto the Lord; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.”
The purpose of the pairs is obvious, but God tells you anyhow. They are to breed abundantly in the earth, to be fruitful, and to multiply. Now comes the question, why three pairs of clean and why the spare? Well, the spare is easy. He made the journey just to be sacrificed in thanksgiving to God for sparing their lives. As for the three pairs of clean animals, clean animals were the ones who were 1) more timid and tended to be the dinner for other animals so there would need to be more of them to feed the animal kingdom and still not run out of those animals. 2) Not only were they to feed the animal kingdom, but in Moses time the Law would be given to only eat these animals, and Israel would grow large, and they had to be fed. So again, now these animals are doing double duty as meals on wheels for the animal kingdom, and meals for humans. 3) These animals were also the ones that would be acceptable to use for sacrifice, again according to the Law of Moses. So now these poor little creatures are doing triple duty as food for animals, food for man, and sacrifice for God. And look at the connection. This is the group that were taken by three pairs. God knew they would be needed for triple the duty of other animals, so He had Noah take three times the number on the ark compared to other animals.
There is no contradiction here at all. Just a lack of intelligent understanding of the situation and the writing style.
For the question of how did 2 (or 7) of every animal ever fit into the ark, there are two easy explanations. One is that the ark was much bigger than people realize, and second, they did not have to take one of every variation of every animal. Back then the gene pool was still quite intact and animals would have the variations within their DNA. Therefore far fewer animals than people think needed to be taken. The best place to answer all these scientific questions is found at Answers in Genesis. They are a creation ministry that has all the answers about creation and Noah's Flood. They can be found at
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)