Tuesday, February 14, 2012

A Timeline of the 70th Week of Daniel

Before laying out a very abbreviated timeline, it is necessary to make sure that some terms are understood. One of them is the term"The Day of the Lord". The Day of the Lord is known as the time of God's wrath when He will finish the plan of salvation and punish the wicked before setting up His kingdom on earth. To that end there can be found below, a small list (there are a great many more verses) that give us some of the events of that time. These events are crucial in understanding the timeline later, as they show up in the gospels and Revelation as a pivotal point in the timing of things, so it is here that this article will begin. To keep things to a minimum, the Scripture references will be given, but the verses themselves will not be written out. It falls to the reader to get out their Bible to confirm all of this (which as a Berean you should be doing anyhow). ;-)

Day of the Lord Signs
These are just a few of the signs heralding the Day of the Lord. These signs will be seen again in the gospels and Revelation.
Isaiah 2:17,19,21 - men hide in rocks and caves for fear of the Lord, Lord alone exalted
Isaiah 13:9-10,13 - wrath, anger, destroy land, destroy sinners; sun, moon, stars go dark, earth & heavens shake
Isaiah 34:8 - day of the Lord's vengeance
Jeremiah 46:10 - day of the Lord's vengeance
Joel 2:10 - sun, moon, stars turn dark, earth & heavens tremble
Joel 2:31 - sun turns dark, moon turns blood (dark red) before the Day of the Lord
Joel 2:32 - deliverance for the remnant who call upon the name of the Lord
Malachi 4:5 - Elijah comes before the Day of the Lord
Acts 2:20 - sun turns dark, moon turns blood (dark red) before Day of the Lord
From these few verses we see that it will be a day of God's wrath and vengeance, and that there will be some very specific heavenly signs. The sun, moon, and stars will stop giving their light. Some people believe this will simply be eclipses. The problem with this is that 1) eclipses are not seen the world over, and these signs are, meaning they are not ordinary eclipses. 2) People do not run into the caves of the earth to hide from mere eclipses of the sun or moon. These things happening are not only life threatening, they threaten the very existence of the planet as far as people are concerned. The earth and heavens will both shake. The earth will literally shake with earthquakes, and the heavens, both literally and spiritually as the heavenly bodies are disrupted and the spiritual world will be at war. There will be incredible destruction of the earth and the wicked, and people will try to hide in caves or anywhere they can for fear of what is coming. Elijah's ministry will precede these signs. When he appears, people can know that the Day of the Lord will follow after.

Daniel's 70th Week
Daniel 9:27 “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
The 70th week of Daniel is a seven year period of time when God will finish His work of redemption. It is divided in half (3 ½ years x 2) with the midpoint known as the abomination of desolation when the beast, son of perdition, or dragon ( Dan. 7:21,25, 8:9-11, 11:31; 2 Thess. 2:3-4; Rev.12: 7-17, 13:5,7) declares himself God and persecutes the saints. The second half from the day of the abomination is 1290 days long for all to be accomplished - Dan. 12:11. There is a period of 1260 days, also known as time, times, and half a time, or forty-two months from the time of the abomination. - Rev. 11:3, 12:6; Dan. 12:7, Rev. 12:14; Rev. 11:2, 13:5. The beast's reign lasts forty-two months or time, times and half a time. The two witnesses of Rev. 11:3-4 prophesy for 1260 days after the abomination. The temple is trampled underfoot for forty-two months after the abomination. Rev. 11:1-2 The woman (Israel) who flees to the wilderness is protected for time, times & half a time or 1260 days, Rev. 12:6,14. All of these are in the same time frame from the abomination of desolation. There is also a period of 1335 days from the abomination, Dan. 12:13. Those who reach this day are blessed. So there is a period of thirty days from the 1260th to the 1290th day, and a period of forty-five days from the 1290th day to the 1335th day. This entire seven year period is not referred to anywhere in Scripture as the tribulation. That is an error which has led to erroneous assumptions and conclusions. It is merely Daniel's 70th week.
The time of sorrow's beginning is not really specified except to say in Matthew that when these things occur we are not to get upset, as it is not the end yet, however we know that whenever it begins, it lasts up until the mid-point of the 70th week of Daniel.
Seals #1-4 – Time of Sorrows – Matt. 24:8
False Christs – Seal #1 - Matt. 24:5; Mark 13:6; Luke 21:8; Rev. 6:1-2
Wars - Seal #2 - Matt. 24:6-7a; Mark 13:7-8a; Luke 21:9-10; Rev. 6:3-4
Famine - Seal #3 - Matt. 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11; Rev. 6:5-6
Death - Seal #4 - Matt. 24:7; Mark 13:8; Luke 21:11; Rev. 6:7-8
(through famine,pestilence,martyrdom, earthquakes, etc.)

Seal #5 – Martyrdom – begins before the abomination of desolation and goes through the tribulation, getting much worse during that time.
Martyrdom - Seal #5 - Matt. 24:9-10; Mark 13:9-13; Luke 21:12-17; Rev. 6:9-11, 7:14

The mid-point of the 70th Week – The Abomination of Desolation
Abomination of Desolation - Matt. 24:15; Mark 13:14; Luke 21:20

2nd half of the 70th week commences, starting at the abomination
Jerusalem trodden by Gentiles - Luke 21: 24; Rev. 11:1-2 – 42 months
2 Witnesses Rev. 11:3 – 1260 days
Women flees Rev. 12:6, 14 – 1260 days; time, times & ½ time
Beast reigns Daniel 7:25 – time, times, ½ time, Rev. 13:5 – 42 months
Tribulation - see below

Seal #5 (cont.) The Great Tribulation
This is the only event which is referred to in the Bible as the tribulation, and it does not encompass the entire time of the three and a half years after the abomination of desolation. It is cut short of that period of time. There appear to be no Scriptures that tell when that may be.
Seal # 5 continues - Rev. 7:14
Tribulation - Matt. 24:15-21, Mark 13:14-19; Luke 21:20-24


The Tribulation is cut short of the 3 ½ years
The tribulation is cut short from the entire length of three and a half years, time, times, and half a time, forty-two months, or 1260 days. What appears to cut it short is the sixth seal, which are the signs of the Day of the Lord. People are scared and running for their lives, so they are no longer interested in persecuting the saints. Now all the saints martyred in the tribulation will show up in heaven.
Trib cut short - Matt. 24:22; Mark 13:20
Rest of martyrs in heaven - Rev. 6:11, Rev. 7:14

Seal #6 - Signs Heralding the Day of the Lord
DOL signs - Seal #6 - Matt. 24:29; Mark 13:24-25; Luke 21:25-26; Rev. 6:12-17

Seal #7 – Trumpet Judgments #1-4
Seal #7 - Trumpets #1-4 - Rev. 8:1-13

Seal #7 (cont.) - Trumpet Judgments #5-6 – Woes #1-2
Trumpets #5-6 - Rev. 9: 1-21
Woes #1-2 - Rev. 8:13, Rev. 9:12

End of Day 1260; 42 months; time, times & ½ time end, Mystery of God Finished, Trumpet #7, God's Wrath Begins
2 witnesses die - Rev. 11:7-12
Beasts's reign ends - Dan. 7:9-14, 21-22, 26, 11:45; 2 Thess. 2:8, Rev. 19:20
Trumpet #7 - Rev. 15-16
3rd woe - Rev. 11:14
Last trump - Rev. 11:15, Matt. 24:31; 1 Cor. 15:52; 1 Thess. 4:16
Mystery finished - Rev. 10:7
2nd Coming - Matt 24:30; Mark 13:26, 14:62; Luke 21:27; 1 Cor. 15:52; 1 Thess. 2:19, 3:13
4:14-17, 5:23; 2 Thess. 3:1; James 5:7-8; 1 John 2:28; Rev. 11:18, 14:14-16
Resurrection - Dan. 12: 2; John 5:25, 28-29; 1 Cor. 15:23, 52; 1 Thess. 3:13, 4:14-17;
Rev. 11:18, Rev. 20:4-6
Rapture - Matt 24:31; Mark 13:27; Luke 21:28; 1 Cor. 15:52; 1 Thess. 1:10, 4:14-17, 5:9;
2 Thess. 2:1; 1 John 2:28; Rev.11:18; Rev. 14:14-16; Rev. 15:2
God's wrath - Rev. 11:18; Rev. 14:10,19; Rev. 15:1,7 ; Rev. 16:1-21; 18:3, 19:15
Israel saved - Zechariah Chapters 12-14, Rom. 11:25-27

End of Day 1290 – Sheep & Goat Judgment begins
Sheep & Goats - Matt. 25:31-46, Dan. 12:13

Day 1335 – Millennium begins
1000 yr reign - Rev. 20:4
Temple restored – Ez. Chapters 40-48

Jewish Feasts & Traditions
The Jewish Festivals and traditions help in understanding how this timeline works. Christ fulfilled the spring festivals when He came. He died on Passover, was raised on the Feast of Firstfruits, the Holy Spirit came on Pentecost. Everybody knows this, yet they ignore the fall feasts and everything that surrounds them as having anything to do with the Second Coming. They are the pattern of what is to come and we need to study them to understand Revelation more fully.

Rosh haShanah (Head of the Year)
Rosh ha Shanah (new year's day). Also known as the Feast of Trumpets - as there are many trumpet blasts sounded, also known as Yom Teru'ah – the day of the sounding of the shofar(trumpet), also Yom haDin – the day of judgment, Yom Hazikaron – day of remembering, and the Day that No Man Can Know – as it was determined by the sighting of the new moon which required two witnesses reporting to the temple and then the temple declaring it to the public.
Judaism associates this day as the day that God will be crowned and hailed as King, the day of God's judgment, the day heralding the Messianic age, and day the dead will be resurrected at the last trump (which sounds on this day). It is believed that creation started on this day and that God will judge man on the anniversary of this day. They believe that the ten days between this holiday and Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement) are the days of awe when men will pass before God in judgment. The righteous are written in the Book of Life, the wicked are sent to punishment, and those who do not really fall into either camp are given these ten days to repent. Their fate will be decided on Yom Kippur. They can at that time either have their name written in the Book of Life or will receive God's wrath. These have been Jewish beliefs about this day from the start. When Paul wrote about the last trump, he was referring to this trump. When John wrote, the last trump he mentioned also fulfills these teachings. They are indeed the same last trump.
Notice that the ten days seem to be the time when the Jews will see the Messiah when He returns at the 2nd Coming at Rosh haShanah. Their decision will be too late then to be of the Bride of Christ and be raptured, but their names can be written in the Book of Life and they will be protected during the wrath of God and can go into the Millennium, or they can continue to reject Christ and suffer God's wrath of the vial judgments. Whoever has not been killed in God's wrath and is left at the end of the 1290 days will go through the sheep and goat judgment. Those who have taken the mark are automatically sent into perdition.

Yom Kippur
Yom Kippur is the tenth day of Tishri (first month of the civil Jewish year, the 1st day being Rosh haShanah). It is the Day of Atonement. It will be Israel's ultimate Day of Atonement as they will finally see and accept the Final Atonement Sacrifice. One strange tradition that they have about this day, which is a complete mystery to them, as this is the most somber of all the days of the year due to the atonement being offered, is that there is a tradition that Yom Kippur is one of two of the merriest days of the year, for young women would dress in white and go out in the fields to dance, and young men would come and choose brides. They do not understand this association at all. To them it makes no sense, but to us it does.

The Feast of Tabernacles - Sukkot
The Feast of Tabernacles, otherwise known as Sukkot, is on the 15th of Tishri. This is the Feast of Ingathering, when the final harvest of the year, the grape harvest, comes in. It is an eight day festival of thanksgiving. People build booths and live outside as a reminder of the wilderness experience. At this time of the year, Israel not only offered sacrifices for themselves, but offered sacrifices for the other seventy nations in the world. One of the associations is the theme of Israel returning to Zion at this time. The passages of Scripture read throughout this week have to do with that as well as with God's judgment and the Gog/Magog war. The seventh day of the festival is known as Hoshana Rabbah. It is known as the final day of judgment. This Feast is also known by the names The Feast of Booths or Sukkot (for the outdoor structures known as sukkah, booths, or tabernacles), and the Season of Joy. It is known as “THE Feast” of the entire year (think marriage supper) and is simply referred to at times as “The Feast”. This will no doubt be the week of marriage celebration.

Marriage Customs
Jewish wedding traditions say that at the betrothal, a groom would sign an agreement (made with her father) called a Ketubah* (see below) which outlined his responsibilities and rights toward the bride, (Christ agreed to redeem us and the earth before creation) and he and she would drink a glass of wine to seal the deal. (Christ drank that glass at the last supper and won't drink again until the marriage supper. Matt. 26:29 “But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.” ). Then he would return to His father's house to build a place for them to live. (John 14:2-3 “In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.”) When it was finished, the Father would have to look it over and if satisfied, he would give his son the approval to go get the bride. It was a day that only the father could know as he was the one issuing the approval, (Matt. 24:36 “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”) even if it was apparent the time was at hand. When he would return to get his bride, there would be a noisy procession beforehand, so that the bride knew he was coming and would be ready to return (signs of the Day of the Lord). When he got her there would be a marriage ceremony at which time the ketubah would be read aloud under the canopy for her and witnesses to hear, and it would be witnessed (signed) by two witnesses (the two witnesses of Rev. 11?) as a legal document. The marriage celebration would last a week (the length of the Feast of Tabernacles).
The Ketubah - It appears that the little scroll in Rev. 10 might be a ketubah which is the pre-nuptial agreement. The reason for thinking this, is that the rapture of the Church will occur at the last or 7th trump and therefore the marriage ceremony should follow shortly thereafter. The events of this chapter occur at that time after the 6th trumpet. This is the time when Christ can really claim the earth as His again, as the last of the conditions of the seals have been met. He plants one foot on the earth and one foot on the sea, claiming all the earth, both land and sea, back for Himself. A ketubah is read at the wedding under a chuppah (canopy). He is canopied with the sky, the clouds, and a rainbow. The heavens are His chuppah. He seals the words up and doesn't have them written, as the Bride should not hear her ketubah read until the actual ceremony. He redeemed the Bride herself when He died on the cross and was resurrected. He has redeemed back the earth for His Bride, finishing the mystery of God, or the plan of redemption. There is also a bride price that must be paid for the bride. Part of what may be in it could be the bride price. Christ gives us back dominion over the earth - Dan. 7:27 after He takes it back Rev. 10. Part of what is due the saints in the sense of responsibility is that God has promised to avenge them (Romans 12:19- His wrath) and He says that now, at the last trump the mystery of God will be finished. What that mystery is will be discussed in a moment.

The Laws and Customs of a Mortgage
The mortgage on planet earth - The following is the way mortgages were handled in Bible times. When an owner lost his property, he would make a deal with the person who was holding the mortgage for a way to redeem it. There would be a price, and terms and conditions that would have to be met for the mortgage to be redeemed. At first the terms were written on two scrolls with one kept in the temple. Then they gradually changed it so that the conditions were written on only one scroll to be kept in the temple. The conditions would be written on the inside of the scroll as the legal document, then it was rolled and sealed, but the conditions were then written on the seals so that they had to be broken one at a time before the mortgage could be opened and declared null and void. The number of conditions that had to be met would determine how many seals were on the scroll when the parchment was rolled up. There was a reason for this. If a person did not have the money to redeem the mortgage, a kinsman could redeem it, if he had the price and could fill the conditions. When he went to the temple he first had to prove his kinsmanship to even be allowed access to the scroll. Then next he had to pay the price to have the scroll handed into his possession, so that he could have the privilege of breaking the seals and meeting the terms and conditions. Then he had to fulfill each condition on the scroll in turn before witnesses. He would read the first seal, break and fulfill it. Then he could move down to the next seal doing the same. When all the seals were broken, and all the conditions (including those on the last seal) were met, he could open the scroll and declare it null and void. At the time that the last seal was broken, there no longer remained any seals or conditions to be met, so technically in a way, the property reverted back to the owner, however the conditions of the last seal still had to be finished before the property actually was no longer under the control of the person holding the mortgage, and it could be declared null and void. Only then was he completely the owner with no liens on the property and could do as he wanted with it. This is the scroll that Christ opens in chapter 6. It is the mortgage on the earth.
Adam and Eve forfeited both their eternal spirits and dominion over the earth when they sinned, and Satan became our father at birth and the prince of the world. Jesus had to redeem both us and the world back from Satan. He redeemed us when He came the first time at the spring feasts and gave His life as a substitute for us on the cross. Becoming a human man, He became a kinsman. As a kinsman redeemer (He redeemed us) who paid the price (satisfied justice for our sins on our behalf), He was the only one worthy to open the scroll. The seals that He breaks are not God's wrath. They are the terms by which Satan agreed to hand back the earth. Not to God, for God owns everything, but to us, for we are the ones who sold out our dominion. Christ is redeeming it back for us. God does everything in a fair and legal manner so that nobody can accuse Him of not being fair, including Satan. He has the power to take back the earth whenever He wants, and Satan could not do a thing, but then God would not be just, as technically Satan owns it fair and square, because he was able to get Adam to hand himself over to Satan's lordship, which also gave Satan lordship over the earth. God arranged a legal way of getting it all back. Satan hoped to foil that plan, but he was not able to do it, hence the way the seals play out. Notice that they increase in hatred, wrath, and destruction as they go along. Satan wants first to deceive us, then to destroy us, and when that fails, he wants to destroy the earth. His purpose is to still foil God's plan. While redemption of man may be complete, God has still a promise to Israel to fulfill. If Satan can stop that plan, He will make God a liar by default. So if he can destroy the planet, that ends the whole game.
While Christ is done with His part at the time the last seal is broken, thereby the Day of the Lord can be said to begin in a way, as He has completed breaking the seals which are the terms of redemption and can open the scroll declaring it null and void, He is not free to do that and reign over the earth (the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord Rev. 11:15) and pour out His wrath (Rev. 11:18) until the last conditions of the scroll (trumpets 1-6) are completely finished. This is why His declaration of the mystery of God* (the plan of redemption of us and earth – see below) being finished (Rev. 10:7), and His wrath do not come until the last trump (Rev. 11:15; 16:1-21) when the last seal has run its course.

The Mystery of God
The mystery of God - We are told in Rev. 10:7 “But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.” At the sounding of the 7th trumpet the mystery of God will be finished. What is this mystery? It is the entire plan of redemption, not just the existence of the church as some say. The church is only a part of the mystery.
The gospel or plan of redemption of grace through Christ's blood as the mystery.
Romans 16:25 “Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began. (This can also refer to the church)
Ephesians 6:19 “And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel.”
Colossians 1:26-27 “Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.”
Colossians 4:3 “Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds.”
The church as part of the mystery:
Romans 11:25 “ For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.”
Ephesians 3:4-6 “Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ, Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel.”
Ephesians 5:32 “This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.”
The reigning of sin, Satan, and antichrist is part of the whole redemption plan also.
2 Thessalonians 2:7 “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Faith in Christ being the means of salvation is a mystery.
1 Timothy 3:9 “Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
The rapture is part of the mystery.
1 Corinthians 115:51 “ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed.” The rapture is part of this mystery.
God becoming a man and being a triune being was part of the mystery.
1 Timothy 3:16 “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Colossians 2:2 “That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgment of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ.”

This shows that the end of the mystery which includes the church and the rapture happens at the last or 7th trumpet. It is not finished until that time. When Christ said “it is finished” on the cross, he was only speaking of man's redemption from sin, but the entire mystery is the redemption of the world, including the planet. Now in Rev. 10:7 He declares that it is all completely finished. The plan of redemption is complete. Now God can pour out His wrath on a wicked world and cleanse it for His kingdom.
This is the timeline according to Scripture. Any misplaced hope for an early departure out of this world is not upheld by the Word of God. We are told in Luke 21:36 "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

17 comments:

  1. I’ve examined many of your articles these past few days. As someone who is used to the Pre-Wrath position, I find your timeline very similar to one the one offered by Pre-Wrath teachers and a timeline that is worth strong consideration.

    I need some clarification on the Day of the Lord from your perspective. The impression I have from reading many of your articles is that you have the Day of the Lord beginning after the last trump/Second Coming/Rapture at the end of (the second) 1260 day period, but before that there is a time period after the opening of the sixth seal when the “Day of the Lord signs” are prevalent. Do you view the time period following the opening of the sixth seal when the “Day of the Lord signs” are prevalent (maybe up to a year, two, or more depending on how quickly the great tribulation/wrath of Satan is cut short) as being officially part of the Day of the Lord or a time period that is unassociated with the Day of the Lord?

    The Pre-Wrath position generally places the official start of the Day of the Lord/Wrath of God at the opening of the seventh seal following the Rapture after the opening of the sixth seal (with the time period between the opening of the sixth seal and seventh seal being very short). The Pre-Wrath position also does not see Christians going through any part of the Day of the Lord (the Day of the Lord for the Pre-Wrtah position would include the trumpet and the vial judgments). I'm just mentioning this to give you an idea of what my understanding has been. I'm not afraid to change positions and to rewrite everything if I find a superior/more accurate position.

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    1. I haven't upgraded my blog so I might have to post more than one answer to get all this in.

      I guess first of all my definition of the Day of the Lord might be different from other people, so I should start with that. I see the timeline of the world as being 7000 years from creation to White Throne Judgment. Just as God created a week of days, and a week of years, I see a week of millenniums. Just as the seventh day is the Sabbath or a Day sanctified unto the Lord, and the seventh year is a Sabbath year unto the Lord, I see the entire 7th millennium as a Sabbath or a Day unto or of the Lord. So my definition of the Day of the Lord is not just His wrath, it is the entire Sabbath millennium. Just as the priests cleaned the temple to purify it just prior to the Sabbath commencing, I see the wrath of God as the cleaning of the earth before the Sabbath millennium commences.

      As to whether it starts at the seventh seal or the seventh trumpet, that goes back to my understanding of what the scroll is. I understand the scroll to be the mortgage on the earth. If that is correct, as such it is redeemed when the seventh seal is broken, as there remain no more seals to break, so the earth technically reverts to its owner (Christ), but the final conditions of the redemption on that last seal (trumpets 1-6) still have to play out before physical possession can take place. The reason that the signs of the Day of the Lord occur in the 6th seal is that at the breaking of the 7th seal, the deal is complete and the land legally reverts. Thus the Day of the Lord can begin as soon as they finish. That is why the silence before the 7th seal. It is the moment of truth, so to speak. The 6th is the last seal before the reversion, so the signs have to be there in order to herald the coming Day of the Lord. There are no more seals after the seventh, thus technically the ownership of the world is being transferred when that one is opened, and the Day of the Lord (when defined as God's wrath) will immediately follow, [and here is the crux of the matter as to the difference], as soon as all the conditions in that seal have finished playing out. The difference between what I believe and pre-wrath (which I used to believe) is that I don't believe the conditions to be met are finished yet with the opening of the 6th seal. The 6th seal are signs that herald the Day of the Lord, but they aren't the start of the Day of the Lord if by definition you strictly mean God's wrath. I know people are saying that God's wrath is come in that seal, but that is people on earth saying that based on the signs and their fear. Heaven does not declare that His wrath is come until Rev. 11 at the last trumpet. Sorry if I get redundant here, I'm trying to make myself understood and I'm not sure I'm doing it well.

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  2. Getting back to the mortgage, that was how a mortgage worked, the conditions of payback on the seals had to be completed, before the owner could actually take possession. Does that make sense? If the deal was complete at the mere breaking of the 7th seal, Christ would begin to reign immediately, but Christ cannot be the reigning king until antichrist's time is fulfilled, and he is given 42 months, not less. They can't reign simultaneously. That is why I believe Christ is standing with His feet planted on the sea and land in chapter 10 right after the 6th trumpet is finished. He is claiming His property to give back to His bride. Rev. 11 confirms that the kingdoms of the world become His only at the sounding of the 7th trumpet. That said I see the Day of the Lord, when defined as the REDEMPTION of the earth being complete, as commencing technically at the 7th seal, but when defined as the actual POSSESSION and Wrath of God, not starting until the 7th trumpet when Christ's reign starts. The period in between the 7th seal and 7th trumpet is that period of time when these last conditions play out between the end of the tribulation(shown by all the martyrs on the sea of glass), which we are told is cut short of the 1260 days, and the wrath of God, which cannot yet begin, as antichrist's reign is not complete until the end of the 42 months. If God's wrath begins before the 1260 days are over, then antichrist doesn't get his full 42 months as promised, and if the tribulation goes until the 1260 days, then it is not cut short as promised and nobody would survive. The six trumpets are basically time fillers between the two (tribulation and wrath) to keep the world busy until the end, allowing the tribulation to be cut short. They won't have time to persecute and martyr Christians if they are trying to survive themselves. God had to have something to keep antichrist busy in another way than killing us, to finish out the 42 months until He takes over. Make sense?

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    1. Things are making more sense, but I don't think I have a full level of understanding yet.

      Your definition of the Day of the Lord is unique and has a lot of nuisance to it. I’ve read over your answer multiple times. If I understand you correctly, you have the Day of the Lord (when defined as the wrath of God) beginning at 7th trumpet, but the Day of the Lord (when defined as the redemption of the earth) beginning at the breaking of the 7th seal. Trumpets 1-6 are the filler, but they are part of the Day of the Lord if defined as the redemption of Earth (and not if defined by the wrath of God). Correct?

      You mentioned that “the Day of the Lord is not just His wrath, it is the entire Sabbath millennium”. Revelation 20 notes that Christ reigns for 1000 years. A question I have for you now is do you see the wrath of God + Millennium equal to 1000 years + X # of days (so that the total time period is greater than 1000 years) or do you see the X # of days coming out of the 1000 years? I’ve seen another prophecy writer talk about a time period greater than 1000 years, but it’s something which is a little bit difficult for me to grasp as a day is equated to 1000 years in 2 Peter 3:8 and not 1000 years + X # of days.

      I’m rereading things a lot because I’m trying to get a firmer grasp of how you view things. Unfortunately, I was never the best at reading comprehension even when I was in school. I’m more of an audio and visual learner, so I’ve been trying to take some of what you’ve written and create a visual chart. I think your view of how events will play out has a chance to be superior to the Pre-Wrath view. I just need to get as complete of understanding of how you view things to make that determination.

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    2. I meant to write "nuance" instead of "nuisance". My spell check gave me the wrong word. Sorry about that.

      I want to rephrase my question about the length of the Day of the Lord with respective to the Millennium. In total, do you see a Day of the Lord period that is greater than 1000 years (when accounting for the wrath of God, sheep goat judgment, and the 45 days)? I’ve seen another prophecy writer talk about a Day of the Lord period greater than 1000 years, but it’s something which is a little bit difficult for me to grasp as a day is equated to 1000 years in 2 Peter 3:8 and not 1000 years + X # of days. A Day of the Lord period which is greater than 1000 years does not seem to meet 2 Peter 3:8's way of defining it.

      Thanks for your time

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    3. Would you believe I read the word as nuance and never saw that it was nuisance? I guess my mind made the appropriate change based on context.
      Yes, you have it right about the Day of the Lord depending upon the definition.

      I think where the problem is coming in for you is that you might have a definition that is different from mine. That always seems to be where people's understanding falls apart. Just as neither of us sees the tribulation as being the entire 7 years, we can't talk turkey with pre-trib because our definitions are different. When it comes to the millennium, how is it defined by Scripture? As far as I can see, we are told that it is the time when Christ will reign. So do you define that by starting at the moment He is crowned King, or when the temple is reconsecrated? If you define it by His crowning, which I believe it the way monarchies are tallied, then it begins the moment that the kingdoms of the world become His. That occurs at the sounding of the last trump, which is the beginning of God's wrath according to Rev. 11:15-18. So I do see the millennium as beginning at that time and those events falling into it, so they are part of the 1000 year reign of Christ. That would make all of them also part of the Day of the Lord, as I see the Day of the Lord as being the Sabbath reign of Christ.

      What if God does not start the clock ticking on the millennium until the temple is reconsecrated? Well, I don't see the Day of the Lord moniker as having to be a perfectly synonymous with either the millennium or God's wrath, and being constrained to a literal 1000 years down to the day the way the word millennium can be (even though the Lord said a day is as a thousand years), or to merely that period of time of punishment on the world (as most people apply the phrase). A day starts at sunset and ends at sunset. That changes from day to day, so a day does not have to be exactly 24 hours in God's eyes. Actually a day is more than 24 hours when you consider that there are 24 times zones and that the last time zone doesn't even begin the day until the first time zone is ending it and that the last time zone doesn't end it until the first time zone is ready to start the third day. So what is the real definition of a day? In Daniel when God said there would be 7 sevens and 62 sevens the division was given to show the time period of the rebuilding of the temple and walls and then the rest of the time until Christ's return, yet it took only 46 years to rebuild the temple not 49. Forty-six years still qualified as 7 sevens, not 6 sevens. It wasn't exact to the day, but it fell within the time frame. There are times when I don't think God demands that things be held to an exact amount. I don't think Daniel's 70th week has to be two periods of 1260 days. (Actually I think the second half goes to the 1290 days according to Dan.12 and the definition given in Dan. 9.) God did not define the 70th week as two periods of 1260 days. He only defined the second half to exact time periods. I think the first half could be slightly more or less than 1260 days as long as it falls within the 7 year time frame. When God is not specific, I don't like to pigeonhole Him into a strict amount on something.

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  3. I think the Day of the Lord is not a time period defined by an exact amount of years down to the day, but rather encompasses a series of events. Just as a day in God's eyes is defined not by a clock but by the sun, I think the Day of the Lord is defined by the events and not held to a certain number of days. Just as cleaning the temple before the Sabbath began well before sunset, or the lighting of the Sabbath candles occur before the Sabbath actually begins, but both were/are considered a vital part of the Sabbath ritual, I see wrath of God or cleansing of the earth as part of the Sabbath millennium ritual, therefore falling under the heading of the Day of the Lord. Should God not want to start the clock on the millennium until the temple is reconsecrated, I don't see the Day of the Lord constrained to that same time. Especially given that in the O.T. He gives events of the Day of the Lord that occur within both the trumpets and vial judgments. I think God has shown us that He does not always classify a phrase by an exact number (such as not keeping a 24 hour day), so we do not have to force Him into that position either. Nor do I see it limited to the short 30 days when the vials of God's wrath are poured out. As to whether the trumpets fall under the heading, I'm inclined to say that they do fall under the heading for two reasons even though God's wrath has not begun. First, some of the events in the trumpets are mentioned as part of the Day of the Lord in the O.T., and second, the redemption was complete with the breaking of the last seal so technically the Day of the Lord has begun in legal terms if you consider it the start of a new regime, although in physical terms it is a different matter. I may close a deal on a house, but if I have agreed to let the previous owner live there another month, I don't take possession yet even though I am the owner. In that situation I would hold off on cleaning the house and celebrating until I actually take physical possession. As said, the period between the 7th seal and 7th trumpet is a peculiar phase in that the redemption is complete at the breaking of the last seal, but the conditions of that seal are not yet finished. It is that time period between the closing of the deal and getting the previous owner out so I can move in. I honestly don't know how to categorize it, as it falls between the tribulation and God's wrath. What would you call the comparison situation of closing on a house? I honestly don't know so am not going to get dogmatic as to whether the term Day of the Lord starts at the 7th seal or the 7th trumpet, however God's wrath does seem to start at the 7th trumpet. I just accept what He says is going to happen. Does that make sense?

    As an added note, I know pre-wrath sees the people on the sea of glass as the raptured. I see them as the fulfillment of the statement to the 5th seal martyrs that they must wait for the rest of the martyrs to arrive. We know there will be martyrdom unlike the world has ever seen before. I think that shows us how great the multitude of martyred is. I don't think that they are the raptured. I see the group on the sea of glass in chapter 15 as the ones being raptured after the rapture occurs in chapter 14.

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  4. Your explanation of how you see the Millennium clarifies things a lot. The word “day” (Yom) in the Bible does not always mean a fixed time period depending on what kind of “day” it is. For instance, the length of the Day (Yom) of the Lord isn’t the same length as a typical day, yet the same word (Yom) is used. As you said, the length of a day isn’t always the same even in its normal use since it was based on sunrise and sunset, which changes each day.

    The impression I have is that you see the seventieth week of Daniel as potentially being as long as 2550 days (1260 plus or minus a few days + 1290) instead of what people typically see as 2520 days. With regards to the other 69 weeks, do you see those weeks being 2520 days long? The reason I ask is that I think the 69 week prophecy only works when you use 2520 days instead of 2550 days. However, I think you can make a case for the 70th week being around 2550 days since you do have Daniel 12 talk specifically about 1290 days.

    I read some of your articles about when you think Babylon the Great will be destroyed last night trying to get a sense of how you view that. My impression is that you envision two separate events: 1) Babylon’s fall from power, but not necessarily destroyed before the Rapture 2) Babylon’s annihilation by the wrath of God in the seventh vial judgment. My impression also is that you see Revelation 17 applying to the fall of Babylon from power while Revelation 18 applying to the annihilation by the wrath of God. Is this correct? and how would you separate Isaiah 13, Jeremiah 50, and Jeremiah 51 into these two categories?

    I’ll spend some more time examining what you’ve written. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my questions.

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  5. It's going to take me some time to go through all your questions. I'll get to them a.s.a.p.

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  6. This will take a few posts. So keep scrolling down.

    You do ask the hard questions, don't you. As for calculating the 69 weeks, I have written in my blog about the prophetic year of 360 days and the whole method of calculation that scholars have used, but I don't know that I believe that the seven years have to be 2520 days each. I find it interesting that the way the 483 years are made to fit into 445 B.C. to A.D. 31 (or so) is to take 360 days a year, multiply it by 7 years then by 69, to get the number of days, then divide by the real length of a year 365 to come up with 476 years which is the amount of time between 445 B.C. and A.D. 31. So we just undid the whole 360 day per year thing, didn't we? We converted it to a 365 day year, and what happens when we do that is that eventually the seven year periods end up starting at a completely different time of year by the time you get to the end, as the earth spins on a 365 ¼ year so the months keep getting moved forward. That is why God built in an adjustment for that very problem. The first month of the year (Aviv or Nissan) was not to be declared until the barley harvest was ready for harvest. If it wasn't ready they had to add in another month. It happened every few years in a random way, but in the long run it kept adjusting the year back to the correct season. I believe that before the Flood, the year was exactly twelve months of 30 days each, but when the Flood occurred the earth's size changed and it is indicated that the orbit did also, making a different length of year. The reason I say it is indicated that the orbit changed is that it is indicated in Scripture that the earth will be moved to another orbit after the Day of the Lord (or during it due to the events occurring) which would put it back to a 360 day year. The loss during the Flood of the vapor canopy to protect the earth might be the reason God moved the orbit further away. As mentioned above, the temple and walls didn't take 49 years, the Bible says it took 46 years. And in Daniel it is indicated that the second half of the 70th week is 1290 days for the prophecies in Chapter 9 to be fulfilled, so God must allow for it to not have to be 2520 days exactly when He refers to a seven year week. Note that a 365 day seven year period would easily allow for the extra 30 days in the second half to fall within a seven year week. It is our assumption that a prophetic year is 360 days. I don't know of any place where God told us that this is definitely how we are to interpret it. We are not the final authority as to what is, He is, so maybe we should not assume He means 360 day years. After all He did have them adjust the years occasionally by adding a month so that by the time a Jubilee year rolled around, they literally had observed seven 7 year periods of 365 days, not 49 years of 360 days each.

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    1. If the start date 444 BC is used and if you add a year to account for the fact that there is not a year 0, you will get to 33 AD

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  7. I know there is someone who has supposedly calculated that from the decree given until Palm Sunday that there was the exact number of days, but seeing as the BC dates cannot be proven to be absolutely precise given the changes in the calendars made (like when they went Pope Gregory adjusted the calendar), the way monarchies overlapped way back then, and all the other things that have happened in the millennia since then, I would hesitate to put that forth as an absolute fact, although a theory worthy of mention. Also nobody can agree to exactly when Christ was born, so that end of the timeline is also suspect as to its accuracy. In all honesty we can only say that approximately 483 years passed between the decree and Christ. He was the only Messiah to show up around that time frame, so it still shows that He was the Messiah. Given that the temple was finished before the 49 years, it wouldn't bother me to find out that Christ came any time during the 69th week, not necessarily at the end of it. He still would have fallen in that 69th seven, as there was a seven year period in which he could come and be in it. That would mean he could come anytime from the 476th year to the 483rd year. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but the 46 years, and the 1290 days tell me that God doesn't hold everything to an exact 2520 day week for these things to qualify as being in a seven year period.

    You are right that I see a downfall first and then the complete annihilation. The only reason I can give for this is that in Rev. 14, the angel announces that Babylon has fallen before the rapture occurs, [which I put at 14:14-16 (which is also at the last trump)], but the complete annihilation occurs in Rev. 16:19 at the last vial. Unless Babylon changes geographical identities between the two events, and both are annihilated completely, I saw no other way of interpreting this, as these two events are separated by probably at least a couple of weeks, unless the destruction is an ongoing thing that begins in chapter 14 and ends in chapter 16, which may be a possibility. I quite honestly can't explain it other than to say that the Scriptures say that there are two events (the way I read it), so I accept that and try to deal with it as best as I can from the Scriptures. In the O.T. passages I see two types of things happening. It speaks of Babylon being overrun by the Medes and armies from the north, and people being killed by the sword, etc. which I would put these things as a description of what happens at the first event or fall, but then the same passages describe a complete destruction, which I see as an annihilation of the Sodom and Gomorrah type event, either by God's sending down fire from heaven or possibly a nuclear holocaust caused by the cronies of antichrist, as described in Rev. 17. It does say that God puts it in their heart to do it for His purposes. It seems that there are two types of falling being described in the O.T. passages. One seems to involve people against people, face to face, with plundering, killing, ravaging, pillaging, etc., and the other seems to indicate a nuclear holocaust type of thing where the land is completely laid waste by fire and rendered uninhabitable. If you have a more rational explanation for these two different announcements about Babylon in Revelation, I am all ears and open to suggestion, because I've wracked my brain for years over this problem.

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  8. I've tend to view the destruction of Babylon the Great as a single event through the years, but I should try to see if I can find some distinction in the chapters concerning its downfall/destruction for a possible two event scenario.

    I've read one person say that the announcement in Revelation 14:8 could be a case of prophetic perfect tense (a sort of technique used by people of the time period), which is to predict something in the future that is so assured that it is described in the past tense. Some people say this technique was used a lot in the Bible. Just throwing this out there...

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    1. To the first comment, I'm a little confused as to what point you are trying to make. What exactly am I adding to 444 to get to 33 AD? Are you saying that we should use 360 days and then divide by 365 to get the 476 years and add that to 444 and therefore it works? I had not heard it was 444, in my research I was seeing 445 as the year, which seems to give validity to my point that nobody seems to know for certain. I was under the impression that you are supposed to subtract a year not add it to account for the fact that there is no year 0. For instance 1 BC to AD 1 is only 1 year, not 3. You'll have to elaborate on that. I'm not picking up on what you are trying to communicate to me.

      Please do have a go at it. Maybe you can find a way to reconcile it for me, because so far I can't find a way around what I'm seeing. I do often go to the Hebrew and Greek just for definitions, but I am of the opinion that God wants us to understand it without having to do that, as few people have that ability. I certainly don't know tenses to be able to discern that. I figure if He wanted it to be future tense, He would have used that in English too. Maybe I'm naive in that respect.

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  9. With the first point, I was trying to convey (rather poorly) that I think it is possible to utilize the 360 day year length to find the distance from the start of the 1st week to the end of the 69th week. No matter how it's calculated, we know the prophecy of the first 69 weeks is true, so that is the important thing.

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